The question I’ve not seen asked is: was it worth it? Russia has lost by consensus estimates a million men. For just that little amount of territory compared to the size of Russia before this war started. Has it been worth it? What is Russia really gaining here? A slice of land that was already living as part of Russia. Crimea has always been the crown jewel and they already had that without much resistance. What is so important about this small piece of land not bigger than NJ? Better access to a river which it already had? The massive loss of life doesn’t seem to be worth it to me. The rebuilding that will now need to take place allowing it to be inhabitable again will cost billions which I’ll concede will put lots of people to work and gin up the economy but that’s a high price in terms of lives lost. Congratulations, I guess.
So, you're saying that after three and a half years, you still have no clue of what the conditions Putin has stated, repeatedly, are? That kind of willful ignorance doesn't deserve a reply in the comment section.
“There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.”
Sun Tzu
Russia lost when they failed to depose Zelensky and install a puppet in the first several weeks of the war. Putin continued the war because the Concorde Fallacy is part of human nature and it takes a good leader like Trump to surrender to Afghanistan and walk away from a 20 year 2400 casualties $2 trillion quagmire. Trump is a good leader, Putin doesn’t seem like a good leader anymore.
Once reality sets in, the Ukraine population will realize the dramatic losses, in case they will be able to keep the reminder of the country. Then they will count the endless millions of Ukrainians who left, the giant debts they have to pay with their mineral resources and they will understand that in 2022 they were sucked into an absurd conflict they should have never entered. At that point they will see Zelensky as ‘The Comedian with Limited Talent’ and they might even become angry. Before the war Ukraine was one of the poorest and most corrupted nations of Europe. After the war things will go down from that prior status.
I don't see how Russia can achieve all of its three stated goals plus address the "root causes" for the conflict without taking all of Ukraine. Otherwise, how to demilitarize Ukraine, denazify Ukraine and insure it never becomes part of NATO. How else to make sure NATO or any foreign troops never set foot in Ukraine? I also don't see how Russia will let Odessa fall into the hands of NATO, the USA or even Turkey. Russia will have to exercise control over all of Ukraine until a new constitution is written and all Nazis eliminated. Further, to denazify Ukraine which implies decades of re-education, is a must for Russia or the evil snake will raise its head once again somewhere down the road. And then one has to consider what Putin means by NATO returning to the 1991 borders! Without achieving all of this, Russia's security can never be achieved.
Russian ultimatum of 11/21 had four points. Ukraine was just one of them.
Russia officially claimed that western countries are unable to respect a treaty.
Russian ultimatum said that in case of refusal of discuss, it would launch "military-technic" means. Ukraine SMO was not an end, it was one "military technic mean.
Occupy Ukraine will not stop the strategic threats from west for Russia.
Therefore, I think that the agenda of Russia is either a NATO bursting or a economical or political collapse of enough big countries of NATO, especially europeans (France, UK, Germany, euro, UE) to eliminate the threat
His next step is to admit that the Ukraine will accept and recognise that any land occupied/lost during the war (and even before - Crimea) will become part of the Russian Federation and no more crap about getting part of it back through diplomatic negotiation.
(1) Zelensky needs to shift the goal post, even if just to keep his life. Unless a lethal disease suddenly infects all Banderites, his life will not be spared. (2) It depends on how much staying power the NATO countries have, the remaining Ukraine rump state can still launch drone attacks, if not deep inside Russia. (3) Even if Trump is able to change US official polices toward more peaceful posture, CIA has enough slush fund, and NSA could be holding half of ALL the Bitcoin. There will be enough funding to keep military action going by Banderites without paying pensioners in Ukraine.
NATO is weaker than ever, and deeply fractured. Breaking their economies is the key to destroying the alliance, as they will be unable to convince their populations to pay for rearmament.
To be fair, I’m almost convinced Russia will take Odessa in the end.
The question I’ve not seen asked is: was it worth it? Russia has lost by consensus estimates a million men. For just that little amount of territory compared to the size of Russia before this war started. Has it been worth it? What is Russia really gaining here? A slice of land that was already living as part of Russia. Crimea has always been the crown jewel and they already had that without much resistance. What is so important about this small piece of land not bigger than NJ? Better access to a river which it already had? The massive loss of life doesn’t seem to be worth it to me. The rebuilding that will now need to take place allowing it to be inhabitable again will cost billions which I’ll concede will put lots of people to work and gin up the economy but that’s a high price in terms of lives lost. Congratulations, I guess.
So, you're saying that after three and a half years, you still have no clue of what the conditions Putin has stated, repeatedly, are? That kind of willful ignorance doesn't deserve a reply in the comment section.
“There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.”
Sun Tzu
Russia lost when they failed to depose Zelensky and install a puppet in the first several weeks of the war. Putin continued the war because the Concorde Fallacy is part of human nature and it takes a good leader like Trump to surrender to Afghanistan and walk away from a 20 year 2400 casualties $2 trillion quagmire. Trump is a good leader, Putin doesn’t seem like a good leader anymore.
Once reality sets in, the Ukraine population will realize the dramatic losses, in case they will be able to keep the reminder of the country. Then they will count the endless millions of Ukrainians who left, the giant debts they have to pay with their mineral resources and they will understand that in 2022 they were sucked into an absurd conflict they should have never entered. At that point they will see Zelensky as ‘The Comedian with Limited Talent’ and they might even become angry. Before the war Ukraine was one of the poorest and most corrupted nations of Europe. After the war things will go down from that prior status.
Nobody cares what the population thinks or wants, as long as the police and army are on side.
I don't see how Russia can achieve all of its three stated goals plus address the "root causes" for the conflict without taking all of Ukraine. Otherwise, how to demilitarize Ukraine, denazify Ukraine and insure it never becomes part of NATO. How else to make sure NATO or any foreign troops never set foot in Ukraine? I also don't see how Russia will let Odessa fall into the hands of NATO, the USA or even Turkey. Russia will have to exercise control over all of Ukraine until a new constitution is written and all Nazis eliminated. Further, to denazify Ukraine which implies decades of re-education, is a must for Russia or the evil snake will raise its head once again somewhere down the road. And then one has to consider what Putin means by NATO returning to the 1991 borders! Without achieving all of this, Russia's security can never be achieved.
By overthrowing the government.
One must look further.
Russian ultimatum of 11/21 had four points. Ukraine was just one of them.
Russia officially claimed that western countries are unable to respect a treaty.
Russian ultimatum said that in case of refusal of discuss, it would launch "military-technic" means. Ukraine SMO was not an end, it was one "military technic mean.
Occupy Ukraine will not stop the strategic threats from west for Russia.
Therefore, I think that the agenda of Russia is either a NATO bursting or a economical or political collapse of enough big countries of NATO, especially europeans (France, UK, Germany, euro, UE) to eliminate the threat
His next step is to admit that the Ukraine will accept and recognise that any land occupied/lost during the war (and even before - Crimea) will become part of the Russian Federation and no more crap about getting part of it back through diplomatic negotiation.
I wouldn't read too much into what Zelenskii said. Once he gets the NATO army that he is angling for, he'll be singing a very different tune.
(1) Zelensky needs to shift the goal post, even if just to keep his life. Unless a lethal disease suddenly infects all Banderites, his life will not be spared. (2) It depends on how much staying power the NATO countries have, the remaining Ukraine rump state can still launch drone attacks, if not deep inside Russia. (3) Even if Trump is able to change US official polices toward more peaceful posture, CIA has enough slush fund, and NSA could be holding half of ALL the Bitcoin. There will be enough funding to keep military action going by Banderites without paying pensioners in Ukraine.
Ukraine is just a boil, not the germ.
Curing a boil without destroying germ or being immune is a losing game.
I think Russians know it.
Destroying the germ is destroying humanity.
I'd like to know what Poutine and his advisers and first circle of power could consider as immune of NATO
NATO is weaker than ever, and deeply fractured. Breaking their economies is the key to destroying the alliance, as they will be unable to convince their populations to pay for rearmament.
When will the NAZIS cull him for that?!
Even if he escapes the Ukronazis, Kolomoisky will have him hunted to the ends of the earth when he gets out of prison.