Russia would remove what the interim Syrian authorities consider to be a “problem” from their hands, it could more quickly settle its new regions, and their ongoing base talks would no longer be overshadowed by these atrocities.
"It would make Russia look quite good". That is: if the mainstream media would inform their readers about it. That will not happen. Well, maybe at the bottom of an article on page 37.
I beg to differ. The international community should not give in to the dangerous zealots who are murdering people in Syria, but take them on instead. Who wants to live in a world where criminals are allowed to do as they please, and decent people are merely supposed to pick up the pieces?
If they're not going to take them on, which there clearly doesn't seem to be any interest in doing whether unilaterally or multilaterally, then the next best option is to protect the innocent victims.
Russia should take the entire coastal area of Syria as a Humanitarian Protectorite. Israel & Turkey have already shown that it's possible to get away with such a move.
What it "should" do and what it "actually" does are oftentimes two very different things. The "real Russia", as in the Russia that objectively exists and isn't the product of the Alt-Media Community, rarely does what "Non-Russian Pro-Russians" want.
It would be a 'Humanitarian' move that would probably garner considerable support from the Global South. They've had a presence there for around 30 years and the local population is sympathetic and supportive. And people are increasingly becoming aware that, along with China, Russia is a rational actor. Unlike say...America, which has been stealing 60,000 barrels of Syrian oil per week for the last 10 years (?) and funneling it to Israel.
I agree that it would be seen positively, but there's no indication whatsoever at all that they have the will to do what's militarily needed to bring that about, including risking a possible clash with Turkiye.
I feel like you and the many like you who have such high hopes about Russia are going to be disappointed and I'm pretty sure you've been disappointed by it before in the past but might hopefully got over it by now.
America and Israel are agents of chaos and increasingly now their allies, partners are seeing them for what they are. I'm not disappointed by Russia, although occasionally puzzled by some of their moves/actions - until I remember that Russia is a civilization with about 1,000 years of history (China is over 4,000 years) and always plays the long game. America, on the other hand, plays 'Texas Hold'em' and almost always "doubles down" on a losing hand or bluffs.
The (Montreux) Convention regarding the Regime of the Straits, but alas America as usual is not a signatory. While Gibraltar is Spanish territory (like Guantanamo is Cuban) and a holdover from Imperial times and 'technically' held illegally - hopefully that'll change one day. Israel and Turkey shouldn't mind terribly given the Syrian territory they've unceremoniously and illegally taken.
Very good idea this coastal protectorate! On top of that, besides being a safe place for refugees, this area could come in handy one day, as a bridgehead from where the decent part of the Syrian people could reconquer their country, under the cover of the Russian air force, and, (why not?) the USAF? It's time that the Americans do something constructive in this part of the world.
Language, bloodline, culture, and religion are all different. Russia should not repeat the mistakes of the EU. For the same amount of resources spent to help these refugees relocate, Russia can allow the Alawites to organize into local defense after setting up a buffer zone, say, a kilometer or more outside of existing Russian bases there. The original Syrian Army had many Alawites if not dominated by the Alawites. The rank and files of the then-Syrian Army were sold out by their commanders. Give them sufficient food and a few days of good sleep, and maybe even a chance to see their families now huddled inside the Russian base. The situation can change quickly. When HTS are funded by external sources, it is not a sin for Russia to take sides in a civil war. If Mr. Putin insists, Russian forces only need to provide food and shelter and a secure buffer zone outside of the bases proper. The Alawites will figure out their next steps. If you put these Alawites onto IL-76, then they will not fight. Most people figt only when they see no other choice.
Many people don't know a significant portion of the US defenders in Bastogne were not 101st Airborne but 28th ID and other attached service troops. Under the initial shock and walking in the woods for a couple of days had totally deflated them. The Airbornes collected them, designated shelters, and emptied out their supply trains. and in less than 3 days, these guys were back on the line. They did not have good unit cohesion but people did adapt.
By the way, this is exactly what the Ukrainian army needs right now: thirty days of rest. Get the wounded routed to the rear rather than groaning in troop shelters. Transport ammo and weapons already crossed the borders but not yet reached the front.
Putin continues importing hundreds of thousands of mostly Central Asian migrants yearly, he's not going to stop, but many here would prefer Alawite Syrian Arabs over them.
Putin is certainly walking an opposing path from Boris Yeltsin of 1991 here.
Giorgia Meloni says that Muslims are simply not compatible with the European population and every maniac running around with a knife or a rented car on the streets of Germany and the UK is a good illustration for this. Besides, we all know better than arguing with Giorgia. When that woman starts talking she becomes a force of nature and no man can stand in her way...
Russia desperately needs more workers but bringing in many millions of Muslims will bring chaos and social problems on the long run. Europe has a very-very long history with Muslim intrusions and it never ended well.
The Direct flight distance from Astana to Moscow is a bit shorter than Damascus to Moscow. Some people in the Central Asian countries have or had a grandpa who fought for the USSR in WW2. I doubt if anyone in Syria has any connection with Russia. Considering the historical relationship between Russians and their Central Asian neighbors, I am sure there are tensions, but also some similarities. If the gaps between Russians and people from Central Asia cannot be easily crossed, then how can the Alawites manage that gap effectively?
That's true, and assimilation is the hardest part, which requires integration that in turn necessitates language skills but there are a bunch of schools and programs here to teach newcomers Russian if they lack it.
The official focus has been on courting "highly skilled migrants" as they call it, but that program hasn't really amounted to much and is also hamstrung by a bunch of red tape (as are most initiatives here unfortunately).
I found the thoughts expressed in this essay, and most of the comments that followed to be of a very Satanic nature, especially considering that the people behind this genocide are the same who were behind the genocide in Rwanda (like; somehow, you all are invisible? Please! Go back to urinating on each other and calling it, "love".)
I thought that the RF open immigration policy from Central Asia was due to ties from the common soviet past, i.e. mostly people from Russian background or at least exposed to the Russian language. But if AK leaving in Russia reports that Alawites syrians tend to integrate well and are well received, I do believe it!
Another option could also be to negotiate that they be received by Haftar in East Lybia, were they would find it easier to integrate as they speak arabic. Good optics and a diplomatic win for Haftar at a small cost (for the refugees in the bases, not so small if for two millions!)
However I remain not convinced that either solution would have positive optics internationally for the RF, at least in the global south: it would risk to be seen as setting a precedent for the displacement of the Palestinians from Gaza and an implicit consent by RF for that solution (regardless of the positions taken at the UN). Which means the problem at hand for the RF is even more intractable.
I agree. Russia is multi-ethnic anyway with some 150-odd represented. It needs more people, good people, that can fit in.
Russia should further remove the red tape for emigrants from Europe, North and South America, elsewhere, while still being selective. Even the US and Canada had sensible immigration standards once upon a time - 50's to early 70's - that actually worked. Of course they completely lost their freakin' minds shortly afterwards 😂
Yes, I'm suggesting that they should accept as many that want to migrate. Alawites easily integrate and assimilate, tend to follow the laws of their host societies, generally have a decent code of conduct, and their numbers in this case would replace "quotas" for many more radically inclined Central Asian migrants.
Russia isn't going to stop importing migrants, I don't know if you're one of those that's under the false assumption that it's anti-migrant, it isn't, it's just anti-illegal immigration. So either a bunch of Uzbeks and Kyrgyz are going to come here, or there could be maybe 2 million Alawites at most. I'd honestly prefer the Alawites, as would many Russians.
Let me ask you some questions since you just asked me one and I graciously gave you some of my very limited time in answering respectfully under the (perhaps false?) assumption that you were asking sincerely without any ulterior motive such as being sarcastic, disrespecting me, and/or wasting my time to push a talking point:
1. Do you really think that Russia will close its borders to majority-Muslim Central Asian migrants anytime in the coming future? Why or why not. Of relevance, officially, the state supports many, many more coming, and as soon as possible.
2. If you had to choose between 2 million Alawites coming to Russia, who integrate and assimilate into host societies much easier than many others from the broader region, and 2 million Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, which would you choose and why?
I'm pretty sure you don't live in Russia, or at least in a city with a large migrant presence, so I'll fill you in on a few details.
1. Many Kyrgyz and Uzbek migrants are openly religious, as in they grow out their beards, their women wear the hijab, etc. Fine, it is what it is, but that also shows a potential susceptibility to extremist influences depending on the person. I also occasionally hear them driving around blasting religious music from time to time.
2. Language alone doesn't lead to assimilation and integration, many Kyrgyz and Uzbek migrant communities here in Moscow at least try to "ghettoize" "among their own". That's become a problem in Kotelniki, right outside of Moscow, for example. They prefer being among their co-ethnics/-religionists. Some are only temporary migrants, not long-term.
3. Alawites practice a very distinct set of beliefs that has resulted in many "mainstream" Muslims not even recognizing them as Muslims, instead considering them "apostates"/"infidels"/"kafir". Therefore, practically no risk exists of them being influenced by foreign extremists, unlike Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, whose communities unfortunately have a history of this.
You're welcome, the problem is that some here want replacement and labor migration to replenish the depleting population and keep the economy growing, while others want to drastically curtail migration in general, and still others want to replace Central Asia migrants with temporary labor migrants from elsewhere (ex: South Asia).
For all the talk about Russia being a conservative safe haven, and it's comparatively much better than anywhere in the West apart from Hungary and parts of Poland (no longer all of Poland after drastic changes in recent years), the reality doesn't meet the lofty expectations that some might have had due to very clever media campaigns and social media framing.
Russia still imports hundreds of thousands of "new citizens" a year from Central Asia, and yes, around that many receive citizenship yearly now according to the latest statistics (I don't have them on hand). You might be interested in reading this brief report from Rybar the other day. Use Google Translate if you need to:
Of course not. When the Sunni terrorists who are now calling the shots in Syria, see that they are not punished for murdering the Alawites, and that they are even rewarded with the entire Alawite community leaving the country, they will take on the next "heretics." There are a lot of them in Syria: Shia, Druzes, Christians.
The West's goal in Syria was to turn that country into a failed state amd thereforeno threattoIsraelor the gulfie despotates, much like what was done to Iraq and Libya.
Every nation should be very careful agreeing to take in thousands of refugees. I'm trying to think of a country where taking in thousands of people who may or may not be willing or able to assimilate has produced good results for the host country. Somehow it seems the refugees bring the chaos they are fleeing with them.
The Alawites did get caught in a classic trap after aligning with the Assad Government. On the other hand Russia became rather selective when accepting immigrants after 1991. They have plenty of applicants from the ex-Soviet territories; many of them speak Russian as well and generally are familiar with the Russian industrial culture. Maybe they could settle the Alawites in the far eastern agricultural areas where they have a chance to become self-supportive. One issue is that after 1991 Russia became around 90% ethnic Russian and they do not mix easily with Muslims. Interestingly the U.S. was also 90.5% ethnic European origin still in 1950.
Considering that the former leader of their country is already there it would help to serve to facilitate their acceptance into Russian society. Assad could really be a positive force for this.
What an interesting idea. It would make Russia look quite good, you know.
"It would make Russia look quite good". That is: if the mainstream media would inform their readers about it. That will not happen. Well, maybe at the bottom of an article on page 37.
Russia has a chance to be on the right side here and should take it.
I beg to differ. The international community should not give in to the dangerous zealots who are murdering people in Syria, but take them on instead. Who wants to live in a world where criminals are allowed to do as they please, and decent people are merely supposed to pick up the pieces?
If they're not going to take them on, which there clearly doesn't seem to be any interest in doing whether unilaterally or multilaterally, then the next best option is to protect the innocent victims.
Russia should take the entire coastal area of Syria as a Humanitarian Protectorite. Israel & Turkey have already shown that it's possible to get away with such a move.
What it "should" do and what it "actually" does are oftentimes two very different things. The "real Russia", as in the Russia that objectively exists and isn't the product of the Alt-Media Community, rarely does what "Non-Russian Pro-Russians" want.
It would be a 'Humanitarian' move that would probably garner considerable support from the Global South. They've had a presence there for around 30 years and the local population is sympathetic and supportive. And people are increasingly becoming aware that, along with China, Russia is a rational actor. Unlike say...America, which has been stealing 60,000 barrels of Syrian oil per week for the last 10 years (?) and funneling it to Israel.
I agree that it would be seen positively, but there's no indication whatsoever at all that they have the will to do what's militarily needed to bring that about, including risking a possible clash with Turkiye.
I feel like you and the many like you who have such high hopes about Russia are going to be disappointed and I'm pretty sure you've been disappointed by it before in the past but might hopefully got over it by now.
America and Israel are agents of chaos and increasingly now their allies, partners are seeing them for what they are. I'm not disappointed by Russia, although occasionally puzzled by some of their moves/actions - until I remember that Russia is a civilization with about 1,000 years of history (China is over 4,000 years) and always plays the long game. America, on the other hand, plays 'Texas Hold'em' and almost always "doubles down" on a losing hand or bluffs.
Ok, how do you propose Russia do that, keeping in mind that Turkey controls the Bosphorus and the UK, Gibraltar?
The (Montreux) Convention regarding the Regime of the Straits, but alas America as usual is not a signatory. While Gibraltar is Spanish territory (like Guantanamo is Cuban) and a holdover from Imperial times and 'technically' held illegally - hopefully that'll change one day. Israel and Turkey shouldn't mind terribly given the Syrian territory they've unceremoniously and illegally taken.
Well, possession is what matters, not law. Law is meaningless. Enforcement is what matters.
And yes, Turkey and Israel will object. Right does not have and never had anything to do with it.
Very good idea this coastal protectorate! On top of that, besides being a safe place for refugees, this area could come in handy one day, as a bridgehead from where the decent part of the Syrian people could reconquer their country, under the cover of the Russian air force, and, (why not?) the USAF? It's time that the Americans do something constructive in this part of the world.
They won't.
Language, bloodline, culture, and religion are all different. Russia should not repeat the mistakes of the EU. For the same amount of resources spent to help these refugees relocate, Russia can allow the Alawites to organize into local defense after setting up a buffer zone, say, a kilometer or more outside of existing Russian bases there. The original Syrian Army had many Alawites if not dominated by the Alawites. The rank and files of the then-Syrian Army were sold out by their commanders. Give them sufficient food and a few days of good sleep, and maybe even a chance to see their families now huddled inside the Russian base. The situation can change quickly. When HTS are funded by external sources, it is not a sin for Russia to take sides in a civil war. If Mr. Putin insists, Russian forces only need to provide food and shelter and a secure buffer zone outside of the bases proper. The Alawites will figure out their next steps. If you put these Alawites onto IL-76, then they will not fight. Most people figt only when they see no other choice.
Many people don't know a significant portion of the US defenders in Bastogne were not 101st Airborne but 28th ID and other attached service troops. Under the initial shock and walking in the woods for a couple of days had totally deflated them. The Airbornes collected them, designated shelters, and emptied out their supply trains. and in less than 3 days, these guys were back on the line. They did not have good unit cohesion but people did adapt.
By the way, this is exactly what the Ukrainian army needs right now: thirty days of rest. Get the wounded routed to the rear rather than groaning in troop shelters. Transport ammo and weapons already crossed the borders but not yet reached the front.
Putin continues importing hundreds of thousands of mostly Central Asian migrants yearly, he's not going to stop, but many here would prefer Alawite Syrian Arabs over them.
Putin is certainly walking an opposing path from Boris Yeltsin of 1991 here.
Giorgia Meloni says that Muslims are simply not compatible with the European population and every maniac running around with a knife or a rented car on the streets of Germany and the UK is a good illustration for this. Besides, we all know better than arguing with Giorgia. When that woman starts talking she becomes a force of nature and no man can stand in her way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXLGfNrWxgE
Russia desperately needs more workers but bringing in many millions of Muslims will bring chaos and social problems on the long run. Europe has a very-very long history with Muslim intrusions and it never ended well.
The Direct flight distance from Astana to Moscow is a bit shorter than Damascus to Moscow. Some people in the Central Asian countries have or had a grandpa who fought for the USSR in WW2. I doubt if anyone in Syria has any connection with Russia. Considering the historical relationship between Russians and their Central Asian neighbors, I am sure there are tensions, but also some similarities. If the gaps between Russians and people from Central Asia cannot be easily crossed, then how can the Alawites manage that gap effectively?
Assimilation and integration are about much more than language alone.
That's true, and assimilation is the hardest part, which requires integration that in turn necessitates language skills but there are a bunch of schools and programs here to teach newcomers Russian if they lack it.
The official focus has been on courting "highly skilled migrants" as they call it, but that program hasn't really amounted to much and is also hamstrung by a bunch of red tape (as are most initiatives here unfortunately).
I found the thoughts expressed in this essay, and most of the comments that followed to be of a very Satanic nature, especially considering that the people behind this genocide are the same who were behind the genocide in Rwanda (like; somehow, you all are invisible? Please! Go back to urinating on each other and calling it, "love".)
I thought that the RF open immigration policy from Central Asia was due to ties from the common soviet past, i.e. mostly people from Russian background or at least exposed to the Russian language. But if AK leaving in Russia reports that Alawites syrians tend to integrate well and are well received, I do believe it!
Another option could also be to negotiate that they be received by Haftar in East Lybia, were they would find it easier to integrate as they speak arabic. Good optics and a diplomatic win for Haftar at a small cost (for the refugees in the bases, not so small if for two millions!)
However I remain not convinced that either solution would have positive optics internationally for the RF, at least in the global south: it would risk to be seen as setting a precedent for the displacement of the Palestinians from Gaza and an implicit consent by RF for that solution (regardless of the positions taken at the UN). Which means the problem at hand for the RF is even more intractable.
Thoughts on North Korea joining the Russian Federation? No, I'm not kidding.
I agree. Russia is multi-ethnic anyway with some 150-odd represented. It needs more people, good people, that can fit in.
Russia should further remove the red tape for emigrants from Europe, North and South America, elsewhere, while still being selective. Even the US and Canada had sensible immigration standards once upon a time - 50's to early 70's - that actually worked. Of course they completely lost their freakin' minds shortly afterwards 😂
There are more than 2 million Alawites in Syria - you’re surely not suggesting that Russia should accept them all (?).
Yes, I'm suggesting that they should accept as many that want to migrate. Alawites easily integrate and assimilate, tend to follow the laws of their host societies, generally have a decent code of conduct, and their numbers in this case would replace "quotas" for many more radically inclined Central Asian migrants.
Russia isn't going to stop importing migrants, I don't know if you're one of those that's under the false assumption that it's anti-migrant, it isn't, it's just anti-illegal immigration. So either a bunch of Uzbeks and Kyrgyz are going to come here, or there could be maybe 2 million Alawites at most. I'd honestly prefer the Alawites, as would many Russians.
Let me ask you some questions since you just asked me one and I graciously gave you some of my very limited time in answering respectfully under the (perhaps false?) assumption that you were asking sincerely without any ulterior motive such as being sarcastic, disrespecting me, and/or wasting my time to push a talking point:
1. Do you really think that Russia will close its borders to majority-Muslim Central Asian migrants anytime in the coming future? Why or why not. Of relevance, officially, the state supports many, many more coming, and as soon as possible.
2. If you had to choose between 2 million Alawites coming to Russia, who integrate and assimilate into host societies much easier than many others from the broader region, and 2 million Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, which would you choose and why?
I'm pretty sure you don't live in Russia, or at least in a city with a large migrant presence, so I'll fill you in on a few details.
1. Many Kyrgyz and Uzbek migrants are openly religious, as in they grow out their beards, their women wear the hijab, etc. Fine, it is what it is, but that also shows a potential susceptibility to extremist influences depending on the person. I also occasionally hear them driving around blasting religious music from time to time.
2. Language alone doesn't lead to assimilation and integration, many Kyrgyz and Uzbek migrant communities here in Moscow at least try to "ghettoize" "among their own". That's become a problem in Kotelniki, right outside of Moscow, for example. They prefer being among their co-ethnics/-religionists. Some are only temporary migrants, not long-term.
3. Alawites practice a very distinct set of beliefs that has resulted in many "mainstream" Muslims not even recognizing them as Muslims, instead considering them "apostates"/"infidels"/"kafir". Therefore, practically no risk exists of them being influenced by foreign extremists, unlike Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, whose communities unfortunately have a history of this.
You're welcome, the problem is that some here want replacement and labor migration to replenish the depleting population and keep the economy growing, while others want to drastically curtail migration in general, and still others want to replace Central Asia migrants with temporary labor migrants from elsewhere (ex: South Asia).
For all the talk about Russia being a conservative safe haven, and it's comparatively much better than anywhere in the West apart from Hungary and parts of Poland (no longer all of Poland after drastic changes in recent years), the reality doesn't meet the lofty expectations that some might have had due to very clever media campaigns and social media framing.
Russia still imports hundreds of thousands of "new citizens" a year from Central Asia, and yes, around that many receive citizenship yearly now according to the latest statistics (I don't have them on hand). You might be interested in reading this brief report from Rybar the other day. Use Google Translate if you need to:
https://rybar.ru/russkim-tut-net-mesta-migraczionnaya-situacziya-v-kotelnikah/
If you think that this is where the violence ends...
Of course not. When the Sunni terrorists who are now calling the shots in Syria, see that they are not punished for murdering the Alawites, and that they are even rewarded with the entire Alawite community leaving the country, they will take on the next "heretics." There are a lot of them in Syria: Shia, Druzes, Christians.
The West's goal in Syria was to turn that country into a failed state amd thereforeno threattoIsraelor the gulfie despotates, much like what was done to Iraq and Libya.
The West has accomplished this goal.
Maybe the Kremlin should make taking half of them a condition of peace talks with USA, since it was the USA that made the mess.
Every nation should be very careful agreeing to take in thousands of refugees. I'm trying to think of a country where taking in thousands of people who may or may not be willing or able to assimilate has produced good results for the host country. Somehow it seems the refugees bring the chaos they are fleeing with them.
The Alawites did get caught in a classic trap after aligning with the Assad Government. On the other hand Russia became rather selective when accepting immigrants after 1991. They have plenty of applicants from the ex-Soviet territories; many of them speak Russian as well and generally are familiar with the Russian industrial culture. Maybe they could settle the Alawites in the far eastern agricultural areas where they have a chance to become self-supportive. One issue is that after 1991 Russia became around 90% ethnic Russian and they do not mix easily with Muslims. Interestingly the U.S. was also 90.5% ethnic European origin still in 1950.
Not at all. Like the Palestinians, they have to stay.
Considering that the former leader of their country is already there it would help to serve to facilitate their acceptance into Russian society. Assad could really be a positive force for this.