India arguably won seeing as how it punished Pakistan for the Pahalgam terrorist attack by bombing multiple bases, the Indus Waters Treaty remains suspended, and a new military doctrine has entered into effect.
Military-wise, I think Andrew is on the right side. However, given that both contestants have a reputation for exaggerations, it might be better to allow some room for future corrections.
I also heard "rumors" that one of the Chinese-made anti-radiation missiles hit an S-400 radar. Chinese overseas dissidents had long reported that the Pakistani military had previously complained about combat jets from China. However, in this brief conflict, we see evidence about how well the Chinese-made ammunition performed and, more importantly, how the Chinese weapon systems performed. Who needs such information most? India? Nope.
The winner of this conflict is the US. The perpetrator, therefore, is most likely the thugs hired by see-eye-aye. Poor Pakistan now shows why it was only the Northwest Territory, and the British colonialists had punished them for their insubordination during British rule. By drawing the map in a way that cannot sustain a nation, Pakistan had been punished before the nation was even born.
India's military got exposed hard this week. Those fancy Rafale jets they kept bragging about? Pakistan shot down 3 of them with J-10C - jets that cost a fraction of the price.
The $5 billion S-400 systems were supposed to be unbeatable, but Pakistan's missiles wrecked them at Beas and Udhampur like they were nothing.
Remember all that tough talk from Modi? Ended with India begging the US to stop the fight after just two days. Their BrahMos depot gone, 26 military sites hit, 5 jets lost - and for what? To prove Pakistan's military can hit back twice as hard?
China must be loving this - their tech (JF-17s, J10C, HQ-9) just humiliated both Russian AND Western equipment in one go. Meanwhile India's left with burned out S-400s, crashed Rafales, and a broken ego.
All that "superpower" dreaming and they still got smacked down by their "weaker" neighbor. Maybe next time they'll think twice before picking fights they can't finish.
The opinion piece is well-written, concise, and precise.
Mr Putin, however, would have insisted on another 3 to 4 days of hostilities before the declaration of a ceasefire.
It would have been in India's military, strategic, and economic interests to have continued military action. India has overlooked a crucial opportunity.
In all probabilities, the Pakistani generals were bribed via an IMF loan to broker the deal.
The violence cycles will continue because Pakistan has not learnt any lessons, and I doubt Mr. Trump has a clue about Pakistani-sponsored terrorism.
You don't mention the five Indian planes that Pakistan claims to have shot down, using Chinese beyond-visual-range missiles. Nobody seems to now for sure if these claims are trustworthy. That's the trouble in the age of "weaponizing of information," an euphemism for lying and deceiving by professionals. You don't know anymore what to believe or not.
The 5th paragraph which Andrew wrote is perfectly applicable to this guy Herman. Somehow alt media community (eurasian, brics, alt media community whichever name you give them) is rabid india haters and not much different from biased western analysts. Their india hatred needs a psychoanalysis. Reading them is the reason that indians need to avoid them from sidelines.
It certainly sounds like something happened, but he was explicit on “all our pilots returned home” or words to that effect.
What I have difficulty believing is our press keeping quiet. During the Mumbai attacks they leaked out the locations of hostages leading to their deaths. During Kargil one particularly notorious “journalist” was posting live footage and updates from the front lines.
Palki Sharma Upadhyaye of FirstPost is a vitriolically anti-Russia rabble rouser whose spouse Sanket Upadhyaye of Red Mike channel is at severe ideological odds with the Modi-led government in India and makes no secret of his dislike for the Indian Prime Minister. Palki Sharma Upadhyaye has voiced strong ( albeit insane) disapproval of the Northern (Arctic) Sea Route and of Russian Special operation in Ukraine; and has lambasted Russia for downing hostile drones over the Black Sea and branded such actions as escalatory provocations. Palki has conjured up tabloid-style fantasies about alleged marital escapades of President Putin and alleged that North Korean troops in Kursk have been splurging on porn videos on Internet and so on. This lady can go to absurd lengths of priestcrafty confabulation for defaming Russia and India, but even she has not mustered the audacity to second the wild claim of even a single Indian jet having been shot by Pakistani missiles. Palki Sharma who is notorious for her anti-India leanings has on the contrary, had no choice but to categorically refute such propaganda, because there is not an iota of substance to those wild claims to make them sound convincing by any stretch of imagination.
Thank you for your analysis? What do you think about India's potential aircraft losses from Chinese made missiles. And do you think China was the hidden hand in these attacks, resulting in successfully neutralizing India's progress in trade talks with USA.
Ptovide proof with photos of 5 planes. Even if you downed that many, Your air defence totally failed your terror camps, military and air bases (where surely many of your planes got destroyed). Satellite images are now proving that which you can't hide. India literally pounded you the last day before ceasefire while your misslies could not do much damage due to India's air defence. And yes the favorable treaties stands suspended.
Profound words from India's ex-ambassador M. K. Bhadrakumar who writes for Indian Punchline and Asia Times. Quoting from one of his recent columns,
"One of the saddest things about India’s lurch toward transforming as a national security state through the past decade since our late ‘peacenik prime minister’ Manmohan Singh handed over power has been the gradual atrophying and the virtual eclipse today of the peace movement in our country.
The death of the peace movement marks a colossal failure of the left parties in India who have always been at its barricades but have gone into hibernation, and are in a state of torpor. This can be largely ascribed to their defeatist mindset in the recent years and a lacklustre leadership.
In reality, they have chosen to go under. The communist parties have never been a large political constituency in India but through ups and down, they still had a larger-than-life image and influence and their voice commanded respect. What distinguished them was their audacity to speak up. But today, they have altogether stopped running with the hares, and at times, even seemingly prefer to hunt with the hounds."
"That might not deter Pakistan, whose military leadership relies on the unresolved Kashmir Conflict to legitimize its outsized influence, but it could still make them think twice about orchestrating future attacks." What proof or evidence exists that the attack was orchestrated by Pakistan's military leadership? How come Pakistan stepped up right away and said who the attack came from and that the US had sponsored these terrorists in Pakistan for 30 years?
Pakistan’s military has a weakening hold over power dynamics in Pakistan since Imran khan’s ouster and massive protests since then. The army also is reputedly divided. Starting a manageable external conflict reminds the population that the military is still necessary and could have been a unifying distraction. Also China has a number of reasons to see a limited conflict and may have prompted their ally Pak behind the scenes.
Turkey is still parleying with Pakistan for a few nuclear fission bombs in readymade or knockdown condition in lieu of a blank cheque to bail it out of its economic crisis. Turkey wants Qatar or Saudia Arabia to foot part of the bailout bill. Saudia has been promised the protection of Turkish nuclear umbrella in future in return for smuggling of nuclear reactor components from nuclear reactors projected to be built in Saudia by European consortiums through international bidding. It is a complex chain of deceit and betrayal. Turkey aspires to reemerge as the hegemon of Arab world as well as terror of Europe as it was in Ottoman days. A few atom bombs will suffice to give it that leverage. But Turkey is a trecherous backstabber which has a penchant for turning on its benefactors.
The Ottoman school of thought despises both Arabs and Iranians, and reckons the former as uncivilised Baddoo (Bedouin) (> Udbek = says "uncouth" in Tajik tongue. 'Udb' Iranian x Semetic 'BDW' vide "reversal of consonant order" rule ) and the latter as "Aryan heretics". A nuclear Turkey portends unmitigated turmoil from Gibraltor to Seistan. Gulf Arabs will submit without offering any resistance, though.
JC10 manufacturer price has gone up 40% this week. Do we not trust market prices any more?
We are investors and I am sad that one news channel that I have used for over 15 years to build my investment strategy is hijacked by political establishment. ZH is suppose to be neutral. What is happening.
JC10 manufacturer share price is 40% up and Rafale is down? I am a trader and investor who trade prices. Your analysis is saying opposite to reality. And don’t you think India has nuclear weapons just for the same purpose? Nur Base which is being mentioned to hit where nuclear facility was hit, there are loads of real time videos available at the time it was hit and there were 100s of civilians who were exactly where the base was hit. We did not see anyone evaporating. You never mentioned about Indian jets being down? Nic Reobertson who is a leading war correspondent who was live on the ground will tell you a totally different story. We are traders, facts and truth matter to us. I would strongly advise anyone reading this to do a little digging. Press conference are available for both countries. Media videos when this was all happening are widely available. I assure you, you will not agree with a word written here.
What both sides found out is that expensive and prestigious hardware can get rapidly destroyed in a real fight. It looks possible that the Pakistan side got the better of the exchange due to the outrageous cost of the Rafale's. But reliable information is hard to come by at this point. India certainly has (at least in theory) the option to upgrade it's Su-30 MKI fleet with a modern radar scaled to the fundamentally more powerful airframe. It will make a both better and more efficient air superiority platform when that is done. The future however must be with drones, since both sides possess SAM systems that outclass the 4G aircraft they fly.
India weaponizing water is also a most regrettable development.
Military-wise, I think Andrew is on the right side. However, given that both contestants have a reputation for exaggerations, it might be better to allow some room for future corrections.
I also heard "rumors" that one of the Chinese-made anti-radiation missiles hit an S-400 radar. Chinese overseas dissidents had long reported that the Pakistani military had previously complained about combat jets from China. However, in this brief conflict, we see evidence about how well the Chinese-made ammunition performed and, more importantly, how the Chinese weapon systems performed. Who needs such information most? India? Nope.
The winner of this conflict is the US. The perpetrator, therefore, is most likely the thugs hired by see-eye-aye. Poor Pakistan now shows why it was only the Northwest Territory, and the British colonialists had punished them for their insubordination during British rule. By drawing the map in a way that cannot sustain a nation, Pakistan had been punished before the nation was even born.
USA doesn't learn much from the de-tuned "export" version of the PL15 or any other system. It's assumed these will fall into Weatern hands.
We can all agree that the rafale was disappointing though
India's military got exposed hard this week. Those fancy Rafale jets they kept bragging about? Pakistan shot down 3 of them with J-10C - jets that cost a fraction of the price.
The $5 billion S-400 systems were supposed to be unbeatable, but Pakistan's missiles wrecked them at Beas and Udhampur like they were nothing.
Remember all that tough talk from Modi? Ended with India begging the US to stop the fight after just two days. Their BrahMos depot gone, 26 military sites hit, 5 jets lost - and for what? To prove Pakistan's military can hit back twice as hard?
China must be loving this - their tech (JF-17s, J10C, HQ-9) just humiliated both Russian AND Western equipment in one go. Meanwhile India's left with burned out S-400s, crashed Rafales, and a broken ego.
All that "superpower" dreaming and they still got smacked down by their "weaker" neighbor. Maybe next time they'll think twice before picking fights they can't finish.
The opinion piece is well-written, concise, and precise.
Mr Putin, however, would have insisted on another 3 to 4 days of hostilities before the declaration of a ceasefire.
It would have been in India's military, strategic, and economic interests to have continued military action. India has overlooked a crucial opportunity.
In all probabilities, the Pakistani generals were bribed via an IMF loan to broker the deal.
The violence cycles will continue because Pakistan has not learnt any lessons, and I doubt Mr. Trump has a clue about Pakistani-sponsored terrorism.
You don't mention the five Indian planes that Pakistan claims to have shot down, using Chinese beyond-visual-range missiles. Nobody seems to now for sure if these claims are trustworthy. That's the trouble in the age of "weaponizing of information," an euphemism for lying and deceiving by professionals. You don't know anymore what to believe or not.
If this had really happened, trust me, our media would have made a ruckus.
Most of the press hate Modi and the BJP, and would not hesitate to sling mud at him using this pretext.
The one image of a "downed aircraft" that was published turned out to be no more than a drop tank 🙄
The 5th paragraph which Andrew wrote is perfectly applicable to this guy Herman. Somehow alt media community (eurasian, brics, alt media community whichever name you give them) is rabid india haters and not much different from biased western analysts. Their india hatred needs a psychoanalysis. Reading them is the reason that indians need to avoid them from sidelines.
I think that Indian Air Marshal A.K. Bharti "confirmed" some losses in his statement here https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/1kk3992/indian_air_marshal_ak_bharti_is_asked_whether_or/
It certainly sounds like something happened, but he was explicit on “all our pilots returned home” or words to that effect.
What I have difficulty believing is our press keeping quiet. During the Mumbai attacks they leaked out the locations of hostages leading to their deaths. During Kargil one particularly notorious “journalist” was posting live footage and updates from the front lines.
“all our pilots returned home” most likely means loss of an aircraft, but the pilot ejected successfully and was rescued.
Agreed.
Palki Sharma Upadhyaye of FirstPost is a vitriolically anti-Russia rabble rouser whose spouse Sanket Upadhyaye of Red Mike channel is at severe ideological odds with the Modi-led government in India and makes no secret of his dislike for the Indian Prime Minister. Palki Sharma Upadhyaye has voiced strong ( albeit insane) disapproval of the Northern (Arctic) Sea Route and of Russian Special operation in Ukraine; and has lambasted Russia for downing hostile drones over the Black Sea and branded such actions as escalatory provocations. Palki has conjured up tabloid-style fantasies about alleged marital escapades of President Putin and alleged that North Korean troops in Kursk have been splurging on porn videos on Internet and so on. This lady can go to absurd lengths of priestcrafty confabulation for defaming Russia and India, but even she has not mustered the audacity to second the wild claim of even a single Indian jet having been shot by Pakistani missiles. Palki Sharma who is notorious for her anti-India leanings has on the contrary, had no choice but to categorically refute such propaganda, because there is not an iota of substance to those wild claims to make them sound convincing by any stretch of imagination.
https://youtu.be/Q7TZULxjRug?si=E59NxFGWty7zGqJE
https://youtu.be/35zAup1tBNU?si=2XoiTKsWk-F3jub5
I remain unconvinced of the allegations about downing of an Indian jet because such news cannot remain secret from the public eye in India.
Thank you for your analysis? What do you think about India's potential aircraft losses from Chinese made missiles. And do you think China was the hidden hand in these attacks, resulting in successfully neutralizing India's progress in trade talks with USA.
Ptovide proof with photos of 5 planes. Even if you downed that many, Your air defence totally failed your terror camps, military and air bases (where surely many of your planes got destroyed). Satellite images are now proving that which you can't hide. India literally pounded you the last day before ceasefire while your misslies could not do much damage due to India's air defence. And yes the favorable treaties stands suspended.
Profound words from India's ex-ambassador M. K. Bhadrakumar who writes for Indian Punchline and Asia Times. Quoting from one of his recent columns,
"One of the saddest things about India’s lurch toward transforming as a national security state through the past decade since our late ‘peacenik prime minister’ Manmohan Singh handed over power has been the gradual atrophying and the virtual eclipse today of the peace movement in our country.
The death of the peace movement marks a colossal failure of the left parties in India who have always been at its barricades but have gone into hibernation, and are in a state of torpor. This can be largely ascribed to their defeatist mindset in the recent years and a lacklustre leadership.
In reality, they have chosen to go under. The communist parties have never been a large political constituency in India but through ups and down, they still had a larger-than-life image and influence and their voice commanded respect. What distinguished them was their audacity to speak up. But today, they have altogether stopped running with the hares, and at times, even seemingly prefer to hunt with the hounds."
https://www.indianpunchline.com/logic-and-reasoning-in-the-time-of-war/?fbclid=IwY2xjawKODghleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETFlb1E1OUlzWUZpTTFGRXNpAR6_l96arqDgNExOVzmSqMSiun9fBlUiVHNGBW6K0NdiZjl7a9JgsvnZ_XZHNw_aem_mBl4YTQvST-FN2tzdDcoVw
"That might not deter Pakistan, whose military leadership relies on the unresolved Kashmir Conflict to legitimize its outsized influence, but it could still make them think twice about orchestrating future attacks." What proof or evidence exists that the attack was orchestrated by Pakistan's military leadership? How come Pakistan stepped up right away and said who the attack came from and that the US had sponsored these terrorists in Pakistan for 30 years?
Pakistan’s military has a weakening hold over power dynamics in Pakistan since Imran khan’s ouster and massive protests since then. The army also is reputedly divided. Starting a manageable external conflict reminds the population that the military is still necessary and could have been a unifying distraction. Also China has a number of reasons to see a limited conflict and may have prompted their ally Pak behind the scenes.
Turkey is still parleying with Pakistan for a few nuclear fission bombs in readymade or knockdown condition in lieu of a blank cheque to bail it out of its economic crisis. Turkey wants Qatar or Saudia Arabia to foot part of the bailout bill. Saudia has been promised the protection of Turkish nuclear umbrella in future in return for smuggling of nuclear reactor components from nuclear reactors projected to be built in Saudia by European consortiums through international bidding. It is a complex chain of deceit and betrayal. Turkey aspires to reemerge as the hegemon of Arab world as well as terror of Europe as it was in Ottoman days. A few atom bombs will suffice to give it that leverage. But Turkey is a trecherous backstabber which has a penchant for turning on its benefactors.
The Ottoman school of thought despises both Arabs and Iranians, and reckons the former as uncivilised Baddoo (Bedouin) (> Udbek = says "uncouth" in Tajik tongue. 'Udb' Iranian x Semetic 'BDW' vide "reversal of consonant order" rule ) and the latter as "Aryan heretics". A nuclear Turkey portends unmitigated turmoil from Gibraltor to Seistan. Gulf Arabs will submit without offering any resistance, though.
These comments are all📡over the place! ↔️↕️
🇨🇳🇮🇳🇵🇰🇷🇺🇺🇲😯🤕💱🐻🐯🐲🇹🇷🇸🇦🧐🙃☪️🤷🏻♂️🙋🏾♀️🙇🏻
https://m.youtube.com/live/sR6TGjp3Tu0
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/302132?countrycode=cn
JC10 manufacturer price has gone up 40% this week. Do we not trust market prices any more?
We are investors and I am sad that one news channel that I have used for over 15 years to build my investment strategy is hijacked by political establishment. ZH is suppose to be neutral. What is happening.
JC10 manufacturer share price is 40% up and Rafale is down? I am a trader and investor who trade prices. Your analysis is saying opposite to reality. And don’t you think India has nuclear weapons just for the same purpose? Nur Base which is being mentioned to hit where nuclear facility was hit, there are loads of real time videos available at the time it was hit and there were 100s of civilians who were exactly where the base was hit. We did not see anyone evaporating. You never mentioned about Indian jets being down? Nic Reobertson who is a leading war correspondent who was live on the ground will tell you a totally different story. We are traders, facts and truth matter to us. I would strongly advise anyone reading this to do a little digging. Press conference are available for both countries. Media videos when this was all happening are widely available. I assure you, you will not agree with a word written here.
What both sides found out is that expensive and prestigious hardware can get rapidly destroyed in a real fight. It looks possible that the Pakistan side got the better of the exchange due to the outrageous cost of the Rafale's. But reliable information is hard to come by at this point. India certainly has (at least in theory) the option to upgrade it's Su-30 MKI fleet with a modern radar scaled to the fundamentally more powerful airframe. It will make a both better and more efficient air superiority platform when that is done. The future however must be with drones, since both sides possess SAM systems that outclass the 4G aircraft they fly.
India weaponizing water is also a most regrettable development.
Very good analysis. Thank you.