Poland and Poles aren’t seen as enemies like Russia and Russians are, but they’re no longer seen as allies, just as mostly reliable neighbors with shared interests.
QUESTION: pardon my ignorance, but is the survey conducted toward Ukrainians in Ukraine or sampled from Ukrainians in Poland? I suspect there can be some differences. And those differences can shed some light on additional issues like how are Ukrainians refugees treated inside Poland and how they behave, and if Polish assistance comes in only in military forms or also has a civilian component (food, medicine, etc.)
As for the attitude change after a couple of years, it is only natural even without the issues of grain and massacre history. People under the direct pressure of war and getting help from outside to survive tend to complain about insufficient help from outside because every day in the way seems to be a day too long. Chinese during WW2 complained about the Germans (the least, as Germany helped China to rebuild its army before WW2,) and the British/French (a lot more, and likely more than what they deserved as neither had the resource to maneuver in the Far East,) and even the Americans (mostly praise and appreciations, but complaints did exist as Americans did have their flaws.)
According to the English pdf of the survey, it states on Page 9 that it was conducted by Computer-Assisted Telephone Interview based on a random sampling of mobile numbers. It excluded any territories occupied by Russia (where Ukrainian mobile telecom providers do not operate) and it also excluded Ukrainians who had relocated abroad.
I just wonder how any polling company can compose a sample of Ukrainians. What are they going to use? The last census of 2001? Based on a estimates of Ukrainians in Ukraine or in Europe? Of 2014 Ukrainians or of 2022 Ukrainians. How to get the right number of males between 25 & 60? -40k dead or - 1 million dead.
For me the interesting thing being measured here is not what Ukrainians think of Poles, but how do Ukrainians identify themselves with Bandera/OUN. Are they more committed to that bogus mythology or more rational?
And then is Poland the US ally abusing Ukraine as a Proxy force? Or is Poland the safe haven for bits of rump Ukraine to join up with, with a solid and credible enough government to make promised to Russia about future behaviour.
The irony here is that the worst behaved Ukrainians of the last 10 years (and of WW2) are the most likely to end up in a safe part of a safe country getting EU aid - Polish Galicia.
I would totally agree. And this Polish Galicia is why I believe we are not going to see a long term solution for the "Ukraine problem" during Mr. Putin's life time. At best, we will get a long armistice like the one between WW1 and WW2.
No I think it will be solved for Putin. The Nazis will spread themselves across EU and also cause mayhem in Polish Galicia. Not Putin's/Russia's problem.
It is Poland and EU that will have the problem. Poland is smart enough not to create the kind of bad neighbour issues that Ukraine with US pushing created, and US is no longer as strong as it used to be (despite it revealing its true awfulness in Syria everyone knows it now - ask the Georgians if they would trust the US again).
But Poland is not smart enough to turn down the offer of historic Polish Galicia again. It was Ukrainian nationalists that murdered Poles and jews (they had been treated badly by both) in WW2 that started all this.
I suspect the possibility that Poland get smart and NOT swallowing Galicia (perhaps under US pressure) while US still controls a rump state of Ukraine based on Galicia. Extra lands controlled by this rump state in central and south Ukraine would be a plus but not necessary. Then they will magically develop long-range strike ability. Of course, I hope Mr. Putin can settle this matter and keeps it settled for as long as possible.
I don't think it is US pressure, but Polish ego that makes them want Galicia back. If anything I imagine US would want to keep as many impressionable Nazis in Ukraine as possible.
Ukrainian Galicia is 700km from the Russian border.
It has little impact on protecting current Russia but harbours the worst of the Ukrainians.
It's interesting that the United States was not included as an option in the question, "Which of these countries do you think helped Ukraine the most in military and humanitarian terms during the war?"
(UK = 34%, Germany = 29%, Poland = 23%, Not sure = 11%, France = 3%)
This thought-provoking article incited me to have a vision In which I can see Poland, Germany, and another obscure country owning western Ukraine, Russia owning East Ukraine, and Ukraine owning Kyiv extending out into a 100 km big bullseye making it the world's tiniest vulnerable country. Well, I did say it was just a vision but it ever happens that way, I called it first, ok? lol
QUESTION: pardon my ignorance, but is the survey conducted toward Ukrainians in Ukraine or sampled from Ukrainians in Poland? I suspect there can be some differences. And those differences can shed some light on additional issues like how are Ukrainians refugees treated inside Poland and how they behave, and if Polish assistance comes in only in military forms or also has a civilian component (food, medicine, etc.)
As for the attitude change after a couple of years, it is only natural even without the issues of grain and massacre history. People under the direct pressure of war and getting help from outside to survive tend to complain about insufficient help from outside because every day in the way seems to be a day too long. Chinese during WW2 complained about the Germans (the least, as Germany helped China to rebuild its army before WW2,) and the British/French (a lot more, and likely more than what they deserved as neither had the resource to maneuver in the Far East,) and even the Americans (mostly praise and appreciations, but complaints did exist as Americans did have their flaws.)
According to the English pdf of the survey, it states on Page 9 that it was conducted by Computer-Assisted Telephone Interview based on a random sampling of mobile numbers. It excluded any territories occupied by Russia (where Ukrainian mobile telecom providers do not operate) and it also excluded Ukrainians who had relocated abroad.
Some of the questions asked below in the thread can also be partially answered by reading the full pdf. https://mieroszewski.pl/upload/2024/12/poland-and-poles-as-seen-by-ukrainians-2024-en-www.pdf
I just wonder how any polling company can compose a sample of Ukrainians. What are they going to use? The last census of 2001? Based on a estimates of Ukrainians in Ukraine or in Europe? Of 2014 Ukrainians or of 2022 Ukrainians. How to get the right number of males between 25 & 60? -40k dead or - 1 million dead.
For me the interesting thing being measured here is not what Ukrainians think of Poles, but how do Ukrainians identify themselves with Bandera/OUN. Are they more committed to that bogus mythology or more rational?
And then is Poland the US ally abusing Ukraine as a Proxy force? Or is Poland the safe haven for bits of rump Ukraine to join up with, with a solid and credible enough government to make promised to Russia about future behaviour.
The irony here is that the worst behaved Ukrainians of the last 10 years (and of WW2) are the most likely to end up in a safe part of a safe country getting EU aid - Polish Galicia.
I would totally agree. And this Polish Galicia is why I believe we are not going to see a long term solution for the "Ukraine problem" during Mr. Putin's life time. At best, we will get a long armistice like the one between WW1 and WW2.
No I think it will be solved for Putin. The Nazis will spread themselves across EU and also cause mayhem in Polish Galicia. Not Putin's/Russia's problem.
It is Poland and EU that will have the problem. Poland is smart enough not to create the kind of bad neighbour issues that Ukraine with US pushing created, and US is no longer as strong as it used to be (despite it revealing its true awfulness in Syria everyone knows it now - ask the Georgians if they would trust the US again).
But Poland is not smart enough to turn down the offer of historic Polish Galicia again. It was Ukrainian nationalists that murdered Poles and jews (they had been treated badly by both) in WW2 that started all this.
I suspect the possibility that Poland get smart and NOT swallowing Galicia (perhaps under US pressure) while US still controls a rump state of Ukraine based on Galicia. Extra lands controlled by this rump state in central and south Ukraine would be a plus but not necessary. Then they will magically develop long-range strike ability. Of course, I hope Mr. Putin can settle this matter and keeps it settled for as long as possible.
I don't think it is US pressure, but Polish ego that makes them want Galicia back. If anything I imagine US would want to keep as many impressionable Nazis in Ukraine as possible.
Ukrainian Galicia is 700km from the Russian border.
It has little impact on protecting current Russia but harbours the worst of the Ukrainians.
Impressive insights, as a norm, Nakayama.
It's interesting that the United States was not included as an option in the question, "Which of these countries do you think helped Ukraine the most in military and humanitarian terms during the war?"
(UK = 34%, Germany = 29%, Poland = 23%, Not sure = 11%, France = 3%)
I assume no "Ukrainians" in the part of Ukraine now occupied by Russia were polled
This thought-provoking article incited me to have a vision In which I can see Poland, Germany, and another obscure country owning western Ukraine, Russia owning East Ukraine, and Ukraine owning Kyiv extending out into a 100 km big bullseye making it the world's tiniest vulnerable country. Well, I did say it was just a vision but it ever happens that way, I called it first, ok? lol
Ukraine is being abandoned