Were I a young man, I would not hesitate to pull up all stakes and relocate to Hungary. The US govt, far from being laudable, has become an outright money looting operation in which war is just a business. It sickens me to know what we've done to others. Decent people want to be part of something decent.
Ah!! L. Jones!! I could not agree with you more!! I, too, am elderly and my life remains here in America. I never would have thought in my youth that I would now see our country deteriorating at this advanced pace. Having been red pilled years ago, I became sickeningly aware that our military is the enforcement weapon for banking cartels and organizations like the the World Bank, IMF, and BIS. With that money, as Orban points out, comes an equally sickening agenda promoting post-nationalism; transgenderism; green/climate change fakery; and war at any cost. America today is, indeed, a monster. I suppose my independent spirit might come from a great-grandmother, for whom I'm named, who came from Hungary.
(:>) Yes, we sadly view things very similarly. It's really quite astonishing to comprehend the difference between the country of our youth and what we are today and, in certain respects, apparently have long been. Manipulation of Americans has been pretty extreme, though I suppose we must also assume some responsibility for our own naivety.
In any event, my grandmother, whose origins lay in Germany, was also a strong influence in my life. All I can say is that Im glad none of my parents or grandparents are around to see the present mess.
I am not a young man (69) but I would gladly ‘pull up stakes’ and relocate to Hungary if the opportunity presented itself. My nephew and the parents got to visit Budapest last summer and the photos they sent back were breathtaking. I spent some time in the 80s working for two Hungarians and became acquainted with their families and many friends who would visit the shop - their civility, sharp service of humor and pride in their culture left a lasting impression - definitely on my bucket list!
It's hard to make that kind of a change late in life bc one is forced into breaking all existing ties. But it's definitely interesting to consider in the midst of this woke nightmare we find ourselves within.
I'm not sure about your optimism Andrew! In the UK there are nations within nations and their clarion call for independence will only get louder! This will wreck Orban's plans and the concept of nation states as they exist today. Another is Apothis as this potential catastrophe will destroy the concept of nation states once and for all! However I like Viktor a lot as it is obvious he is a wise and prudent President unlike some leaders of certain nations we can mention here!
I don't doubt that there'll be lots of meddling to sabotage Orban's plans, but this piece was about summarizing what he said, not sharing my own views on its prospects. I only included my opinion in the end by describing him as this generation's most visionary European leader.
"This will wreck Orban's plans and the concept of nation states as they exist today."
I suspect you rather overestimate the importance of the UK and how its current component parts declining to serve one common master (the United States, the Federal Reserve, the 'Woke', or however you might like to consider 'it'), or 'goal', may affect others. The days of anything the English, and those they've managed to convince profit by serving them, may 'wreck' any actual work being done by anyone anywhere else in the world, and the extent to which the fearful awe of Britain's great power, or loss of it, may cause catastrophe... anywhere...
The UK is still significant in the world although the Brexiteers have done their very best to wreck that but that’s another story for another day. Labour are no better than the Tories nowadays and still Labour’s grand ideas that the UK is still important! I even doubt that Britain as a country will still exist for much longer never mind being an influence in the world!
The thing I like about Orban is that he is basically the only Western leader who sounds like he is trying to convey ideas and information when he talks rather than propaganda and spin, which is what you get from all the others.
He is a visionary and a courageous one at that. His clear and simple ideas are anathema to the absurdists of western Europe.
One can only hope that his vison can pierce the cocaine addled minds of our so called policy setters in Europe and America, however, with Von Der Lyon and co busy destroying Europe for the next 5 years I fear the worst.
I m still wondering if any figure (except mr Putin and mr Farage respectively) of the european political spectrum nowadays would be able to deliver something similar.
“All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.”
― George Orwell
Anyway, it is a mistake to think that trump has any real priority other than Donald Trump, and he can't even focus on that priority for any length of time before getting distracted by some twitter beef or other inanity.
If all ten points are formulated by himself personally, I will have to recognize him as not only a good leader for Hungary, but also a good thinker. Even if the ten points are formulated by his staff starting from the seed ideas from him, I would still claim that he has good staff. Many years ago when Republic of China (Taiwan) and somewhat later in South Korea, were in their historical decision points (early 50s for Taiwan and late 60s for SK) the presidents of both nations published books reviewing their respective nation's modern history, source of pain and suffering, and a vision and strategy, if not yet fully fleshed out plans, about how to possibly come out of the quagmire and revitalize their countries. AFAIK, all 3 books I have in mind were really written by their staff with some key concepts oriented from the leaders personally. However, it did show some of their staff does have good long term vision.
I hope Mr. Putin and Mr. Orban would be able to write at least one such book for the rest of the world to study. It is impossible to improve the quality of all people all around the world, but it might be good enough to improve the quality of the leaders of each and every nation.
"The impression that one gets after reading through his speech in full is that Orban is this generation’s most visionary European leader."
Yes, there is vision there, but he is hobbled by his Christian faith and especially by the first humiliation the Kingdom of Hungary suffered in 1526 at Mohacs, and then in 1541 when the eastern part of the kingdom became independent as the Principality of Transylvania, under Ottoman (and later Habsburg) suzerainty while the north-western part, termed as Royal Hungary, was annexed by the Habsburgs who ruled as kings of Hungary. The remaining central area, including the capital Buda, was known as the Pashalik of Buda. As such, in the Hungarian mind, Islam and Muslims are haram. This and the guilt of supporting Germany in killing over 400,000 Hungarian Jews made Hungary one of the extremely few countries that interceded at the Hague on behalf of Israel concerning the legal position of Israel with respect the occupied territories including Gaza as well as its actions there...
That, with all due respect, my friend, sounded like some wise thing but its only hasbara. let me, as a hungarian, advise you to look again the real facts of the so called german collaboration and the weight of the events in the 16 century.
Hungary is long ago not defined by Mohacs, more by the versailles treaties post 1WW, if something.
It is true that in many of his speacheas Orban gives that realistic impression that Hungary it is what it is and better do the best of the existing situation. Plus, at least in Romania, the Hungarian minority (majoritary in two counties in the centre) has obtained local autonomy.
However, the stain of defending Israel's past and present actions in the highest court, which is of public record (kudos for that backbone, the Canadian government did it in secret for instance), stinks to high heaven... Propping another genocide...
Quite right so, except that no autonomy was given to the hungarian minority in Romania despite a eu "poll" about minority issues including this situation, then gathering more than 1.5 mln signatures.
There is no doubt this case
(ie hungarian minorities in countries sourrounding hungary-that all leading the abovementiont treaties of versailles, in the mirror hall of the small trianon chateau)
would turn into a very dangerous precedent, if not handled with care, a dedly domino effect reverberating all through europe proper, but we saw what happened with spain and some "non existent" minority in catalonia. Hungary saw (the Orban gov at least) the writing on the wall.
And revisionist craze was left behind decades ago anyway. Some singular lunatic may make a graffiti, but even that evaporated with time. We can go there whenever we want, they can travel, the borders are (were, till the 2015 migrant crisis kicking in) imaginative lines, withbno significance whatsoever.
We envisioned the benefits of the united europe concept, he original core of the idea more as a possibility for economical "recoupling" (c Mr Orban) with the lost limbs of the nation.
There is local autonomy based on demographics. Starting with the fact that when the minority reaches around 50% everything becomes bilingual, and even unilingual.
There isn't territorial autonomy, that is for sure, and I would think that Hungarians in the center, the Szekely know not to ask for it. Because then a whole lot of suspicion will come from all around.
And it wasn't truly a nation, the Transylvanians were a bit appart all troughout the Kingdom's history...
The Israel thing you manhandle to this topic is a totally different issue, rooting in a historical gravity of hungarians towards biblical Israel. This is something from our national ID. The israeli national football team reguralry plays their world cup matches here, they feel here pretty much allaise, and rightly so.
This intermingling, with a scale arching centuries, is a field of religion based economic ties woven to the extrem throughout the hungarian society.
Just a fun fact: The us backed "hungarian opposition" has the only hungarian politician in ages amongst them, who proposed the idea of listing people jewish. This man? Was guest invited to the seder at the us embassy by her excellency the us ambassador david pressman, before this or th last election, when the new (credit) cards were handed out. That shows both the clear sight of the us diplomacy, and the capabilities of the politicians involved. He lost with a huge margin, nevertheless. Such rhetoric never gets through here. We are sane people. We were also listed, and harrassed, not on a das reich scale, but go figure :snap, two third of your counry taken away. Ask the Serbs. And.... Drumroll: ask the palestinians.
I mean, the reality on the palestine ground is visible even amongst religious hungarian jews, some Rabbi was cought by the spotlight lately upon expressing realistic criticism toward Israels secular and military deeds. He was kinda expelled by the jewish community, but the sign was there. One cannot unsee the facts. But we tend to back Israeli policies, becouse we regard the archetype Israel as our elder brothers, the israeli economy as partner, the state as a friend.
There is in the Bible the thing, that you must not curse Israel. Or, you can, if you want to, but you must face consequences. Just look what happened the poor MP in Turkiye some months ago....
I don't think anyone is cursing Israel. Just trying to put it in its place and make it a normal country.
Israel would like to have the same purity of culture as Hungary has achieved. Likely after they kill and ethnically clense the occupied territories, the will start sterilizing the Arab Israelis. I doubt that nowadays Hungarians have similar inclinations. I know that my maternal grandfather, a Hungarian, married my maternal grandmother, a Romanian. Total miscegenation. This is not accepted in Israel.
Were I a young man, I would not hesitate to pull up all stakes and relocate to Hungary. The US govt, far from being laudable, has become an outright money looting operation in which war is just a business. It sickens me to know what we've done to others. Decent people want to be part of something decent.
Ah!! L. Jones!! I could not agree with you more!! I, too, am elderly and my life remains here in America. I never would have thought in my youth that I would now see our country deteriorating at this advanced pace. Having been red pilled years ago, I became sickeningly aware that our military is the enforcement weapon for banking cartels and organizations like the the World Bank, IMF, and BIS. With that money, as Orban points out, comes an equally sickening agenda promoting post-nationalism; transgenderism; green/climate change fakery; and war at any cost. America today is, indeed, a monster. I suppose my independent spirit might come from a great-grandmother, for whom I'm named, who came from Hungary.
(:>) Yes, we sadly view things very similarly. It's really quite astonishing to comprehend the difference between the country of our youth and what we are today and, in certain respects, apparently have long been. Manipulation of Americans has been pretty extreme, though I suppose we must also assume some responsibility for our own naivety.
In any event, my grandmother, whose origins lay in Germany, was also a strong influence in my life. All I can say is that Im glad none of my parents or grandparents are around to see the present mess.
I am not a young man (69) but I would gladly ‘pull up stakes’ and relocate to Hungary if the opportunity presented itself. My nephew and the parents got to visit Budapest last summer and the photos they sent back were breathtaking. I spent some time in the 80s working for two Hungarians and became acquainted with their families and many friends who would visit the shop - their civility, sharp service of humor and pride in their culture left a lasting impression - definitely on my bucket list!
It's hard to make that kind of a change late in life bc one is forced into breaking all existing ties. But it's definitely interesting to consider in the midst of this woke nightmare we find ourselves within.
grr… “sharp sense of humor”
Excellent information Andrew!
I'm not sure about your optimism Andrew! In the UK there are nations within nations and their clarion call for independence will only get louder! This will wreck Orban's plans and the concept of nation states as they exist today. Another is Apothis as this potential catastrophe will destroy the concept of nation states once and for all! However I like Viktor a lot as it is obvious he is a wise and prudent President unlike some leaders of certain nations we can mention here!
I don't doubt that there'll be lots of meddling to sabotage Orban's plans, but this piece was about summarizing what he said, not sharing my own views on its prospects. I only included my opinion in the end by describing him as this generation's most visionary European leader.
My apologies Andrew! I misread it!
No worries, it's okay!
"This will wreck Orban's plans and the concept of nation states as they exist today."
I suspect you rather overestimate the importance of the UK and how its current component parts declining to serve one common master (the United States, the Federal Reserve, the 'Woke', or however you might like to consider 'it'), or 'goal', may affect others. The days of anything the English, and those they've managed to convince profit by serving them, may 'wreck' any actual work being done by anyone anywhere else in the world, and the extent to which the fearful awe of Britain's great power, or loss of it, may cause catastrophe... anywhere...
Living in the past?
The UK is still significant in the world although the Brexiteers have done their very best to wreck that but that’s another story for another day. Labour are no better than the Tories nowadays and still Labour’s grand ideas that the UK is still important! I even doubt that Britain as a country will still exist for much longer never mind being an influence in the world!
Yes, I agree; didn't mean to come over as overly-strident.
Your points are well-made and taken in the spirit I believe they were intended.
Don't worry about it! You are asking very relevant questions and admittedly I'm asking exactly the same! Hope you're well!
The thing I like about Orban is that he is basically the only Western leader who sounds like he is trying to convey ideas and information when he talks rather than propaganda and spin, which is what you get from all the others.
No wonder they loathe him so.
"...Orban is this generation’s most visionary European leader."
I agree.
(Given that you're presumably thinking of Putin as a Eurasian or World leader.)
He is a visionary and a courageous one at that. His clear and simple ideas are anathema to the absurdists of western Europe.
One can only hope that his vison can pierce the cocaine addled minds of our so called policy setters in Europe and America, however, with Von Der Lyon and co busy destroying Europe for the next 5 years I fear the worst.
Thanks for your excellent summary of his speech.
as far as I'm concerned, he is the only sane person in the EU
11,000 word speech transcript! 👏
I m still wondering if any figure (except mr Putin and mr Farage respectively) of the european political spectrum nowadays would be able to deliver something similar.
“All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.”
― George Orwell
Anyway, it is a mistake to think that trump has any real priority other than Donald Trump, and he can't even focus on that priority for any length of time before getting distracted by some twitter beef or other inanity.
If all ten points are formulated by himself personally, I will have to recognize him as not only a good leader for Hungary, but also a good thinker. Even if the ten points are formulated by his staff starting from the seed ideas from him, I would still claim that he has good staff. Many years ago when Republic of China (Taiwan) and somewhat later in South Korea, were in their historical decision points (early 50s for Taiwan and late 60s for SK) the presidents of both nations published books reviewing their respective nation's modern history, source of pain and suffering, and a vision and strategy, if not yet fully fleshed out plans, about how to possibly come out of the quagmire and revitalize their countries. AFAIK, all 3 books I have in mind were really written by their staff with some key concepts oriented from the leaders personally. However, it did show some of their staff does have good long term vision.
I hope Mr. Putin and Mr. Orban would be able to write at least one such book for the rest of the world to study. It is impossible to improve the quality of all people all around the world, but it might be good enough to improve the quality of the leaders of each and every nation.
"The impression that one gets after reading through his speech in full is that Orban is this generation’s most visionary European leader."
Yes, there is vision there, but he is hobbled by his Christian faith and especially by the first humiliation the Kingdom of Hungary suffered in 1526 at Mohacs, and then in 1541 when the eastern part of the kingdom became independent as the Principality of Transylvania, under Ottoman (and later Habsburg) suzerainty while the north-western part, termed as Royal Hungary, was annexed by the Habsburgs who ruled as kings of Hungary. The remaining central area, including the capital Buda, was known as the Pashalik of Buda. As such, in the Hungarian mind, Islam and Muslims are haram. This and the guilt of supporting Germany in killing over 400,000 Hungarian Jews made Hungary one of the extremely few countries that interceded at the Hague on behalf of Israel concerning the legal position of Israel with respect the occupied territories including Gaza as well as its actions there...
That, with all due respect, my friend, sounded like some wise thing but its only hasbara. let me, as a hungarian, advise you to look again the real facts of the so called german collaboration and the weight of the events in the 16 century.
Hungary is long ago not defined by Mohacs, more by the versailles treaties post 1WW, if something.
But even that is fading.
It is true that in many of his speacheas Orban gives that realistic impression that Hungary it is what it is and better do the best of the existing situation. Plus, at least in Romania, the Hungarian minority (majoritary in two counties in the centre) has obtained local autonomy.
However, the stain of defending Israel's past and present actions in the highest court, which is of public record (kudos for that backbone, the Canadian government did it in secret for instance), stinks to high heaven... Propping another genocide...
Quite right so, except that no autonomy was given to the hungarian minority in Romania despite a eu "poll" about minority issues including this situation, then gathering more than 1.5 mln signatures.
There is no doubt this case
(ie hungarian minorities in countries sourrounding hungary-that all leading the abovementiont treaties of versailles, in the mirror hall of the small trianon chateau)
would turn into a very dangerous precedent, if not handled with care, a dedly domino effect reverberating all through europe proper, but we saw what happened with spain and some "non existent" minority in catalonia. Hungary saw (the Orban gov at least) the writing on the wall.
And revisionist craze was left behind decades ago anyway. Some singular lunatic may make a graffiti, but even that evaporated with time. We can go there whenever we want, they can travel, the borders are (were, till the 2015 migrant crisis kicking in) imaginative lines, withbno significance whatsoever.
We envisioned the benefits of the united europe concept, he original core of the idea more as a possibility for economical "recoupling" (c Mr Orban) with the lost limbs of the nation.
There is local autonomy based on demographics. Starting with the fact that when the minority reaches around 50% everything becomes bilingual, and even unilingual.
There isn't territorial autonomy, that is for sure, and I would think that Hungarians in the center, the Szekely know not to ask for it. Because then a whole lot of suspicion will come from all around.
And it wasn't truly a nation, the Transylvanians were a bit appart all troughout the Kingdom's history...
My bad,autonomy(free use of the language, jurisdiction and education) is shurely there, i was mistaking for territorial autonomy.
The Israel thing you manhandle to this topic is a totally different issue, rooting in a historical gravity of hungarians towards biblical Israel. This is something from our national ID. The israeli national football team reguralry plays their world cup matches here, they feel here pretty much allaise, and rightly so.
This intermingling, with a scale arching centuries, is a field of religion based economic ties woven to the extrem throughout the hungarian society.
Just a fun fact: The us backed "hungarian opposition" has the only hungarian politician in ages amongst them, who proposed the idea of listing people jewish. This man? Was guest invited to the seder at the us embassy by her excellency the us ambassador david pressman, before this or th last election, when the new (credit) cards were handed out. That shows both the clear sight of the us diplomacy, and the capabilities of the politicians involved. He lost with a huge margin, nevertheless. Such rhetoric never gets through here. We are sane people. We were also listed, and harrassed, not on a das reich scale, but go figure :snap, two third of your counry taken away. Ask the Serbs. And.... Drumroll: ask the palestinians.
I mean, the reality on the palestine ground is visible even amongst religious hungarian jews, some Rabbi was cought by the spotlight lately upon expressing realistic criticism toward Israels secular and military deeds. He was kinda expelled by the jewish community, but the sign was there. One cannot unsee the facts. But we tend to back Israeli policies, becouse we regard the archetype Israel as our elder brothers, the israeli economy as partner, the state as a friend.
There is in the Bible the thing, that you must not curse Israel. Or, you can, if you want to, but you must face consequences. Just look what happened the poor MP in Turkiye some months ago....
I don't think anyone is cursing Israel. Just trying to put it in its place and make it a normal country.
Israel would like to have the same purity of culture as Hungary has achieved. Likely after they kill and ethnically clense the occupied territories, the will start sterilizing the Arab Israelis. I doubt that nowadays Hungarians have similar inclinations. I know that my maternal grandfather, a Hungarian, married my maternal grandmother, a Romanian. Total miscegenation. This is not accepted in Israel.
Unfortunately not a word about the major consideration in UA/RU war: contractual interests with the notorious middle eastern entity.
C'mon!
I dont think that a hungarian
Grand
strategy
should relate to the UA/RU war anyhow at all.
That thing shall pass.
Sorry to break this to you, but they arent the center of the world, at least not for the hungarians.