State sovereignty is a reality of International Relations, and those who deny it do so at their own risk regardless of whether they disagree with the forms in which it’s expressed, which Durov just learned the hard way after naively believing that he was invincible for reasons of wealth and ideology.
I'm not sure we know enough to ascribe Durov's arrest in Paris to "naiveté"--at least in the narrow sense of mindlessly swooping into France for a luxurious dinner.
His leased (not owned by him) private plane was flying from Baku. But the planned destination is still not known. Was he actually trying to go to Paris or somewhere else? It may turn out that, with the help of operatives in the plane's lessor company and crew, the French government effectively forced this plane to divert to, and land in, Paris.
Apparently, arrest warrants were issued for Durov and his brother on 25 March. I'm not sure whether they were made public at the time or were "sealed indictments" US-style. This may turn out to be somewhat similar to the case of Meng Wanzhou. But China backed Meng to the hilt and took counter-hostages from Canada. Not clear that Russia is in a position to get its hands on someone who could be traded for him, though obviously the Russians are well practiced at that game now. (We should keep in mind that although Russia had its own well-documented issues with Durov, it has come grudgingly to accept TG as something necessary for which it has no ready substitute.)
But whether Durov deliberately went to France and was dismissive of the threat to his freedom or opened himself to risk by being unwilling to get his own private plane based on his "principles" of owning little or nothing, he clearly is at fault. The sense of entitlement of untethered international capitalists is boundless.
Russian media links his arrest directly to Telegram's military applications in the Ukraine War:
"And now Durov is in the hands of a NATO country, which means Telegram is decrypted by default. The consequences could be catastrophic. Firstly, the enemy will have access to all chats of Russian units. Here they will be able not only to reveal the exact location of the units, but also to “anonymize” [perhaps "de-anonymize" is what is actually meant here] the identities of the fighters along with family connections. There is no need to talk about how the nationalists will take advantage of the new opportunities. Secondly, intelligence work in the enemy’s camp will become noticeably more difficult or even impossible. Telegram is an excellent platform for recruiting saboteurs and agents among Russian-sympathizing Ukrainians. If Durov falters in France and opens access to the messaging app, then all these people will inevitably end up in the dungeons of the SBU. At the same time, similar enemy intelligence work through Telegram will not disappear anywhere. The Ukrainian Armed Forces will also use a messenger, the encryption algorithms of which are unknown to Russia. As a result, the score will be 1:0 in favor of the enemy for some time, if not all 10:0."
This Russian author goes on to wonder why the Russian Army is quasi-dependent on the Telegram messaging app:
"Hence the question: why hasn’t a sovereign messaging app for the military been created yet? The Wagner group seemed to have its own, but the army still doesn’t have one. We can only hope for the right conclusions in the relevant structures after August 24 and for the well-established work “at full speed” to replace Telegram for the military."
Frankly, something like the above as a rationale for Durov's arrest seems much more credible than that France arrested him because of child porn and drug deals on TG.
A long quote here, but I think it captures the essence of the excellent article:
“Another factor that influenced his thinking was the celebrity status that he obtained in the West for infamously defying his native Russia’s reported request over a decade ago to hand over information about some users who were allegedly engaged in terrorist activity upon a court order. As a transnational socialite whose encrypted platform played a key role in organizing Color Revolutions across the world, Durov truly felt that he was too valuable to the West to detain, let alone prosecute.
Whatever problems their governments may have with his platform could presumably be addressed through some sort of deal, including bribery but ideally without handing over users’ information per his principled opposition to this, or so he might have thought in accordance with his worldview. What Durov never considered was that the West’s lack of control over Telegram, unlike Facebook and the former Twitter (and to an extent with X due to its compliance with most legal requests), made him their enemy.
The same New Cold War bloc that he’d thrown his weight behind out of misguided ideological zeal is the one that ultimately ended up persecuting him, not Russia despite his prior fears of that scenario.”
Both Lukashenko and Durov, it would seem, are naive in exactly the same way here:
""...why should you make claims against us [Belarus] when we defend ourselves using the same methods as you do?”"
'because we are exceptional' would seem to be the most basic canon they've both overlooked.
"Durov considered Russia to be the 'greater evil'..."
Problem (for him) is, he took his eye off the ball: there may have been a time when that was true, when he left Russia. Nothing ever lasts forever and things changed quite significantly with the Americans' defeat in the Ukraine. He just didn't see it happening.
Being human, it's kinda difficult to blame him for that: if you had all the money you could ever want, how eager would you be to see anything change?
"...exposing Western-backed war crimes..."
More specifically, it would seem those relating to Gaza, having greater influence on Americans' perception of crime and criminals, as they approach their elections, made the situation more urgent than those relating to anything else.
"...back to Durov’s naivete and his unrealistic worldview..."
If nothing else had woken him up, he should have started looking for the ball when Russia's $300+bn. were stolen. If it's any consolation I'm sure his example, together with the Great Theft of stolen assets, will ensure many, if not most, others are more careful to avoid following suit.
Interesting 2 Sept piece on Durov in the Russian publication, "Octagon," "Letters to Durov from Washington: why the US is afraid of Telegram" which gives the background on the USG's repeated demands for "cooperation" from Durov on the subject of censoring content on Telegram.
This seems to me to be an operation which Durov probably planned with the French. The aim of this operation will be that Durov loves democracy and France so much that he is willing to destroy telegram for them.
The western world is super and Russia is very bad, yawn!!
If they want you, they will get you, no matter who you are. If countries can take out their own leaders, JFK for one example and there are many more; then no one is immune! Linking as usual @https://nothingnewunderthesun2016.com/
We’re all naive in this New World Order, even the New World Order is out of control. Durov heads up a platform that has every opinionated news article and porn material known to man. Is he lawfully responsible for it all and susceptible by every country’s standards? In the so called Globalist’s attempt to control the world, using, for example, the Blob Theory, these maniacs have exploded it into a million pieces. When it reaches a point where they’ve lost control of everything because they have dumbass bureaucrats and minions making up s..t as they go along not really sure what’s up, what’s down, as long as they can play mini dictators and feel important, will they create a scorched earth affect and a dystopian anarchy? Is this the end goal? Head for their multi million dollar bunkers, while everyone else goes mad and turn on each other? Is that the end goal? Release toxins, dry up food, water and energy supply, cyber attacks from all directions? Is that the end goal? The problem with Psychopathic Narcissistic Overlords in charge is no matter what we or they do from here on out, it will never get better, it will always get worse. And what’s really ironic is they made it all about control creating a Frankenstein even they cannot control? In the end they scurry into their virtual reality bunkers and ride out the scorched earth effect they created? When you’ve lost any empathy for humanity, decimate humanity and all that’s left is Planet Earth, have they then reached their Zenith? We live during a time where the Zeitgeist has been smashed into a million pieces only to be replaced with Psychopathic Narcissism, a syndrome that is the Psychosis of Mass Formation. Unfortunately the only momentum large enough to push back this Beast is Trump and its utter ignorance to think otherwise and ripping it to shreds because it’s not spiritually or intellectually perfect is complete stupidity.
I'm not sure we know enough to ascribe Durov's arrest in Paris to "naiveté"--at least in the narrow sense of mindlessly swooping into France for a luxurious dinner.
His leased (not owned by him) private plane was flying from Baku. But the planned destination is still not known. Was he actually trying to go to Paris or somewhere else? It may turn out that, with the help of operatives in the plane's lessor company and crew, the French government effectively forced this plane to divert to, and land in, Paris.
Apparently, arrest warrants were issued for Durov and his brother on 25 March. I'm not sure whether they were made public at the time or were "sealed indictments" US-style. This may turn out to be somewhat similar to the case of Meng Wanzhou. But China backed Meng to the hilt and took counter-hostages from Canada. Not clear that Russia is in a position to get its hands on someone who could be traded for him, though obviously the Russians are well practiced at that game now. (We should keep in mind that although Russia had its own well-documented issues with Durov, it has come grudgingly to accept TG as something necessary for which it has no ready substitute.)
But whether Durov deliberately went to France and was dismissive of the threat to his freedom or opened himself to risk by being unwilling to get his own private plane based on his "principles" of owning little or nothing, he clearly is at fault. The sense of entitlement of untethered international capitalists is boundless.
Russian media links his arrest directly to Telegram's military applications in the Ukraine War:
"And now Durov is in the hands of a NATO country, which means Telegram is decrypted by default. The consequences could be catastrophic. Firstly, the enemy will have access to all chats of Russian units. Here they will be able not only to reveal the exact location of the units, but also to “anonymize” [perhaps "de-anonymize" is what is actually meant here] the identities of the fighters along with family connections. There is no need to talk about how the nationalists will take advantage of the new opportunities. Secondly, intelligence work in the enemy’s camp will become noticeably more difficult or even impossible. Telegram is an excellent platform for recruiting saboteurs and agents among Russian-sympathizing Ukrainians. If Durov falters in France and opens access to the messaging app, then all these people will inevitably end up in the dungeons of the SBU. At the same time, similar enemy intelligence work through Telegram will not disappear anywhere. The Ukrainian Armed Forces will also use a messenger, the encryption algorithms of which are unknown to Russia. As a result, the score will be 1:0 in favor of the enemy for some time, if not all 10:0."
This Russian author goes on to wonder why the Russian Army is quasi-dependent on the Telegram messaging app:
"Hence the question: why hasn’t a sovereign messaging app for the military been created yet? The Wagner group seemed to have its own, but the army still doesn’t have one. We can only hope for the right conclusions in the relevant structures after August 24 and for the well-established work “at full speed” to replace Telegram for the military."
Frankly, something like the above as a rationale for Durov's arrest seems much more credible than that France arrested him because of child porn and drug deals on TG.
https://en.topwar.ru/248872-oshibka-durova-i-novye-realii-specoperacii.html
A long quote here, but I think it captures the essence of the excellent article:
“Another factor that influenced his thinking was the celebrity status that he obtained in the West for infamously defying his native Russia’s reported request over a decade ago to hand over information about some users who were allegedly engaged in terrorist activity upon a court order. As a transnational socialite whose encrypted platform played a key role in organizing Color Revolutions across the world, Durov truly felt that he was too valuable to the West to detain, let alone prosecute.
Whatever problems their governments may have with his platform could presumably be addressed through some sort of deal, including bribery but ideally without handing over users’ information per his principled opposition to this, or so he might have thought in accordance with his worldview. What Durov never considered was that the West’s lack of control over Telegram, unlike Facebook and the former Twitter (and to an extent with X due to its compliance with most legal requests), made him their enemy.
The same New Cold War bloc that he’d thrown his weight behind out of misguided ideological zeal is the one that ultimately ended up persecuting him, not Russia despite his prior fears of that scenario.”
Both Lukashenko and Durov, it would seem, are naive in exactly the same way here:
""...why should you make claims against us [Belarus] when we defend ourselves using the same methods as you do?”"
'because we are exceptional' would seem to be the most basic canon they've both overlooked.
"Durov considered Russia to be the 'greater evil'..."
Problem (for him) is, he took his eye off the ball: there may have been a time when that was true, when he left Russia. Nothing ever lasts forever and things changed quite significantly with the Americans' defeat in the Ukraine. He just didn't see it happening.
Being human, it's kinda difficult to blame him for that: if you had all the money you could ever want, how eager would you be to see anything change?
"...exposing Western-backed war crimes..."
More specifically, it would seem those relating to Gaza, having greater influence on Americans' perception of crime and criminals, as they approach their elections, made the situation more urgent than those relating to anything else.
"...back to Durov’s naivete and his unrealistic worldview..."
If nothing else had woken him up, he should have started looking for the ball when Russia's $300+bn. were stolen. If it's any consolation I'm sure his example, together with the Great Theft of stolen assets, will ensure many, if not most, others are more careful to avoid following suit.
Great post! Free speech, is neither "free" or "protected" speech.
Also on X: https://x.com/denisrancourt/status/1829141425314775141
From the X post: "Why are so many analysts missing the Israel connection to the Pavel Durov case?"
You could convert that question into a basic template:
"Why are so many analysts missing the Israel connection to ____________?"
And the answer to the general question isn't much of a mystery.
In the case of Andrew, I think a simple error from writing so many valuable posts.
No doubt.
Did you miss the Israel connection to the Durov arrest?
https://archive.ph/wpYTK
https://archive.ph/AmPFL
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/26597
Very interesting.
Macron merely executing the directives of the US and Israel? Yes, sounds about right.
Interesting 2 Sept piece on Durov in the Russian publication, "Octagon," "Letters to Durov from Washington: why the US is afraid of Telegram" which gives the background on the USG's repeated demands for "cooperation" from Durov on the subject of censoring content on Telegram.
https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.28df158f-66d66731-7ebb0718-74722d776562/https/octagon.media/istorii/pisma_durovu_iz_vashingtona_pochemu_ssha_boyatsya_telegram.html
This seems to me to be an operation which Durov probably planned with the French. The aim of this operation will be that Durov loves democracy and France so much that he is willing to destroy telegram for them.
The western world is super and Russia is very bad, yawn!!
If they want you, they will get you, no matter who you are. If countries can take out their own leaders, JFK for one example and there are many more; then no one is immune! Linking as usual @https://nothingnewunderthesun2016.com/
USSR was far better than NATO/ EU
We’re all naive in this New World Order, even the New World Order is out of control. Durov heads up a platform that has every opinionated news article and porn material known to man. Is he lawfully responsible for it all and susceptible by every country’s standards? In the so called Globalist’s attempt to control the world, using, for example, the Blob Theory, these maniacs have exploded it into a million pieces. When it reaches a point where they’ve lost control of everything because they have dumbass bureaucrats and minions making up s..t as they go along not really sure what’s up, what’s down, as long as they can play mini dictators and feel important, will they create a scorched earth affect and a dystopian anarchy? Is this the end goal? Head for their multi million dollar bunkers, while everyone else goes mad and turn on each other? Is that the end goal? Release toxins, dry up food, water and energy supply, cyber attacks from all directions? Is that the end goal? The problem with Psychopathic Narcissistic Overlords in charge is no matter what we or they do from here on out, it will never get better, it will always get worse. And what’s really ironic is they made it all about control creating a Frankenstein even they cannot control? In the end they scurry into their virtual reality bunkers and ride out the scorched earth effect they created? When you’ve lost any empathy for humanity, decimate humanity and all that’s left is Planet Earth, have they then reached their Zenith? We live during a time where the Zeitgeist has been smashed into a million pieces only to be replaced with Psychopathic Narcissism, a syndrome that is the Psychosis of Mass Formation. Unfortunately the only momentum large enough to push back this Beast is Trump and its utter ignorance to think otherwise and ripping it to shreds because it’s not spiritually or intellectually perfect is complete stupidity.
Pretend that Russia or any other country that the Empire doesn't like had arrested Durov on whatever pretext. Imagine the howls of outrage.
Anyway, most of the Russian bonton share Durov's naivete and delusions.