Without some irreversible moves first being made on Kiev’s part, it’s unlikely that Putin will agree to China’s latest call for a prompt ceasefire, so Xi and Orban should now concentrate their joint efforts on convincing Zelensky to carry out his own “goodwill gesture” in order to help bring this about.
China does this only for its own international "face" as if China is doing something. My judgment is Xi has no intention to stop the Ukraine war. From China's perspective, China wants Russia to bleed the west, especially the USA, as much as possible. Although Russians would change the tempo of operation per their own needs, it is rather obvious the "west" does not want to end this war before the USA election. Even if Biden lost, they want to maximize the war such that Donald Trump cannot easily shut it down. So all Xi has to do on this front is waving hands as requested, but not really lifting his feet. Under the table, China would just try to hook Russia in as much as possible. However, it is also obvious Putin has prudently touched the bases with all China's neighbors. I still think this Russo-Sino "alliance" is a temporary convenience. Once the Ukraine war shuts down, Russia's change of orientation would become obvious. Xi has to achieve maximal coupling with Russia before that happens. By the way, both China and Taiwan sold to both Iran and Iraq during the war between the latter two. I am sure China is finding all excuses to explain how come so many Chinese quad-copter drones flow into Ukraine through the third party (actually could be Taiwan).
President Putin has repeatedly asked for negotiations since BEFORE the SMO, which was a last-ditch attempt to persuade Zelenskyy to save Ukraine from a NATO takeover. The then President of Ukraine who was elected on a promise of peace with Russia repeatedly refused after instructions from his handlers.
So now it's up to Ukraine to withdraw ALL it's troops from Russian territory and agree a ceasefire, NOT Russia
Here are three facts VZ understands viscerally that those calling for ceasefire seem to often elide or overlook:
- Any dealing he does with foreign heads of state will be seen as illegitimate and unauthorized the instant the guns go silent, because he is no longer president of the Ukraine.
- Until his family is safely evacuated to a place out of reach of the Azov klatch, his acknowledgement of battlefield reality is his family’s death warrant.
- Until the personal security of VZ himself is secured, he is not at liberty to speak for the wellbeing of the Ukraine. Azov sprung this trap on him the day he was elected (with a mandate to make peace with the Rus, you will recall).
If the last two points had not been true every day of his presidency, the shelling of the Donbas would have ended with his election, and there would never have been war between Russia and the Ukraine. Bohdan Krotevych, chief of staff of the Azov National Guard Brigade, has been asserting these matters almost outright in the press recently, and asserting Azov’s primacy of authority by, for instance, calling for an investigation into Sodol’s command hours before his replacement on June 24th.
VZ is tightly clamped to Azov control and will die if he deviates from obedience. The CIA understands this; they set it up. Mr. Putin understands this; he has seen VZ as a mouse under the paw of the cat all along. “Negotiations” therefore begin with the de-nazification of the regime the US installed in 2014, which will entail the destruction of the Ukraine, exactly as predicted by all the smart people in 2008, when certain cretinous incompetents declared that Ukraine and Georgia would join NATO. Sure, that could happen: after the Russian state was destroyed, it could happen. But it will not while Mr. Putin leads.
I still think we've been given a few clues that Russia expects to wrap things up this year somehow. Some surprise whammy somehow. Could China be kinda colluding in this by publicising this 'last chance' urging towards ceasefire and peace before the whammy happens?
One of my pipe dreams maybe. Dumb ignoramus that I am.
But look at Helmer's 'electronic war'. That's surely still a real thing? And Kiev Ukraine is now hanging on electronically by a thread isn't it? That presumably could be snipped at any time?
And how life sustaining is 'a thread' ? Seems to me no electricity mainly damages the civil engineered infrastructure that keeps cities viable but that never gets mentioned: sewage and water mainly I think.
No water pressure and no sewage treatment and what happens to a city?
That, surely, must be happening to Kiev right now? Or if Kiev is getting preferential treatment which I suppose it is, then to the other cities? And the message getting from the hinterland to the relatives and friends in Kiev and putting the fear of god into them?
That's civil engineering.
What about that other fundamental aspect of modern city life: money. And records. They are intertwined aren't they? No records no one can get paid. No pensioners. No salaried govt servants from police to soldiers via road sweepers or whatever. No one gets paid no one has any money. No money no food. And where are all the records today? In the computer. And how do we access the computer? via electricity? What sort of a strike is required to cut all that off?
In fact more immediate perhaps what sort of strike is needed to simply destroy the govt database computers? The hub.
Modern cities, modern nations, it seems to me, are vulnerable like never before.
Just this war, this SMO, is being fought very circumspectly, seems to me.
Of course Putin won't agree to a ceasefire now; it's not in Russia's national interests. They're WINNING the damned war. Besides, Putin did withdraw troops from the Kharkov region back when that was a condition to the ceasefire agreement Boris Johnson flew out to torpedo. Payback's a distrustful Vlad. He'll insist Ukraine withdraw out of all the annexed territories first.
Even if they don't, the Russians will drive them out anyway. As for China, as others have said here, they're just looking good and maintaining face and all that.
Remember that this war was started by neocon Victoria Nuland & the kagan Zionists - a proxy war - to give the Russian people a “Viet Nam” & lead to its balkanization !
With the economic collapse of Germany, Zelenskyy will take the blood-money profits from Ukraine & retreat to Israel
As others here have pointed out, Russia does not stand to gain anything by making unilateral concessions to the USA. A comprehensive peace would indeed be embraced by Russia, but a comprehensive peace would entail removal of offensive weapons systems from the Russian border areas, complete removal of anti-Russian economic sanctions, including reestablishment of normal trade relations with the West. This is the minimum that would be acceptable to Russia. Further, the issue of whether Ukraine can join military alliances must be resolved with a clear No.
In return for these US concessions Russia probably would accept the following: An internationally agreed security guarantee for a neutral Ukraine, plus acceptance of Ukraine joining the EU, plus Russia would renounce any further territorial changes in Ukraine (Odessa and Kharkiv). But none of this has any chance of happening until the current US Administration changes.
Putin is 💯right! You can’t trust Ukraine and the West anymore. They have already violated contracts several times and outright lied about real situations. The lives of many people are at stake and this time decisions must be made finally and irrevocably.
China does this only for its own international "face" as if China is doing something. My judgment is Xi has no intention to stop the Ukraine war. From China's perspective, China wants Russia to bleed the west, especially the USA, as much as possible. Although Russians would change the tempo of operation per their own needs, it is rather obvious the "west" does not want to end this war before the USA election. Even if Biden lost, they want to maximize the war such that Donald Trump cannot easily shut it down. So all Xi has to do on this front is waving hands as requested, but not really lifting his feet. Under the table, China would just try to hook Russia in as much as possible. However, it is also obvious Putin has prudently touched the bases with all China's neighbors. I still think this Russo-Sino "alliance" is a temporary convenience. Once the Ukraine war shuts down, Russia's change of orientation would become obvious. Xi has to achieve maximal coupling with Russia before that happens. By the way, both China and Taiwan sold to both Iran and Iraq during the war between the latter two. I am sure China is finding all excuses to explain how come so many Chinese quad-copter drones flow into Ukraine through the third party (actually could be Taiwan).
President Putin has repeatedly asked for negotiations since BEFORE the SMO, which was a last-ditch attempt to persuade Zelenskyy to save Ukraine from a NATO takeover. The then President of Ukraine who was elected on a promise of peace with Russia repeatedly refused after instructions from his handlers.
So now it's up to Ukraine to withdraw ALL it's troops from Russian territory and agree a ceasefire, NOT Russia
Here are three facts VZ understands viscerally that those calling for ceasefire seem to often elide or overlook:
- Any dealing he does with foreign heads of state will be seen as illegitimate and unauthorized the instant the guns go silent, because he is no longer president of the Ukraine.
- Until his family is safely evacuated to a place out of reach of the Azov klatch, his acknowledgement of battlefield reality is his family’s death warrant.
- Until the personal security of VZ himself is secured, he is not at liberty to speak for the wellbeing of the Ukraine. Azov sprung this trap on him the day he was elected (with a mandate to make peace with the Rus, you will recall).
If the last two points had not been true every day of his presidency, the shelling of the Donbas would have ended with his election, and there would never have been war between Russia and the Ukraine. Bohdan Krotevych, chief of staff of the Azov National Guard Brigade, has been asserting these matters almost outright in the press recently, and asserting Azov’s primacy of authority by, for instance, calling for an investigation into Sodol’s command hours before his replacement on June 24th.
VZ is tightly clamped to Azov control and will die if he deviates from obedience. The CIA understands this; they set it up. Mr. Putin understands this; he has seen VZ as a mouse under the paw of the cat all along. “Negotiations” therefore begin with the de-nazification of the regime the US installed in 2014, which will entail the destruction of the Ukraine, exactly as predicted by all the smart people in 2008, when certain cretinous incompetents declared that Ukraine and Georgia would join NATO. Sure, that could happen: after the Russian state was destroyed, it could happen. But it will not while Mr. Putin leads.
I still think we've been given a few clues that Russia expects to wrap things up this year somehow. Some surprise whammy somehow. Could China be kinda colluding in this by publicising this 'last chance' urging towards ceasefire and peace before the whammy happens?
One of my pipe dreams maybe. Dumb ignoramus that I am.
But look at Helmer's 'electronic war'. That's surely still a real thing? And Kiev Ukraine is now hanging on electronically by a thread isn't it? That presumably could be snipped at any time?
And how life sustaining is 'a thread' ? Seems to me no electricity mainly damages the civil engineered infrastructure that keeps cities viable but that never gets mentioned: sewage and water mainly I think.
No water pressure and no sewage treatment and what happens to a city?
That, surely, must be happening to Kiev right now? Or if Kiev is getting preferential treatment which I suppose it is, then to the other cities? And the message getting from the hinterland to the relatives and friends in Kiev and putting the fear of god into them?
That's civil engineering.
What about that other fundamental aspect of modern city life: money. And records. They are intertwined aren't they? No records no one can get paid. No pensioners. No salaried govt servants from police to soldiers via road sweepers or whatever. No one gets paid no one has any money. No money no food. And where are all the records today? In the computer. And how do we access the computer? via electricity? What sort of a strike is required to cut all that off?
In fact more immediate perhaps what sort of strike is needed to simply destroy the govt database computers? The hub.
Modern cities, modern nations, it seems to me, are vulnerable like never before.
Just this war, this SMO, is being fought very circumspectly, seems to me.
Like, that could change overnight.
Of course Putin won't agree to a ceasefire now; it's not in Russia's national interests. They're WINNING the damned war. Besides, Putin did withdraw troops from the Kharkov region back when that was a condition to the ceasefire agreement Boris Johnson flew out to torpedo. Payback's a distrustful Vlad. He'll insist Ukraine withdraw out of all the annexed territories first.
Even if they don't, the Russians will drive them out anyway. As for China, as others have said here, they're just looking good and maintaining face and all that.
Putin is right Ukraine would re-arm if there is a pause
Arthur Brogard makes excellent points !
Remember that this war was started by neocon Victoria Nuland & the kagan Zionists - a proxy war - to give the Russian people a “Viet Nam” & lead to its balkanization !
With the economic collapse of Germany, Zelenskyy will take the blood-money profits from Ukraine & retreat to Israel
As others here have pointed out, Russia does not stand to gain anything by making unilateral concessions to the USA. A comprehensive peace would indeed be embraced by Russia, but a comprehensive peace would entail removal of offensive weapons systems from the Russian border areas, complete removal of anti-Russian economic sanctions, including reestablishment of normal trade relations with the West. This is the minimum that would be acceptable to Russia. Further, the issue of whether Ukraine can join military alliances must be resolved with a clear No.
In return for these US concessions Russia probably would accept the following: An internationally agreed security guarantee for a neutral Ukraine, plus acceptance of Ukraine joining the EU, plus Russia would renounce any further territorial changes in Ukraine (Odessa and Kharkiv). But none of this has any chance of happening until the current US Administration changes.
Putin is 💯right! You can’t trust Ukraine and the West anymore. They have already violated contracts several times and outright lied about real situations. The lives of many people are at stake and this time decisions must be made finally and irrevocably.