There’s no restoring the trust that was just lost at that level, but the Polish-Hungarian Brotherhood still endures in the hearts of their patriots since they’ll never let politicians break the bonds between them.
A general thank you 😊🙏 without your reporting I would only ever get one side of goings on in what are incredibly important times. Your clear voice helps me balance not only news/propaganda but also helps me stay grounded and feel hope for which I very grateful.
"...they’ll never let politicians break the bonds between them."
Oh, I dunno: 1) never is an awfully long time; 2) if we've learnt nothing from the defeat of (Nazi) Germany and the rule of NATO, at least we can rest assured by the knowledge that a few bucks can go an awfully long way.
"...the first steps toward Poland abandoning the Visegrad Group."
You don't need any more than a few rotten apples here and there, and just the one will do, to spoil the whole barrel.
"...endures in the hearts of their patriots since they’ll never let politicians break the bonds between them."
But everyone has their price, and just a little political power can work wonders to ascertain exactly what it is.
Get more bang for your buck — the best return on your investment — in the Ukraine.
Other parts of the ex-Soviet Union are also good to go.
Failing that, eastern Europe runs a good second.
OR constitutionally impose a death penalty (Televised hangings at noon on Sundays from the capital's central square should work.) for elected politicians who obtain (and can be shown to exploit OR NOT — a finer political point — the devil's in the details) access to means greater than the average of their constituents — string 'em up from Nelson's column if they make more money than those who elect them, watch and hear their necks snap as they fall level with the lions at the bases; that'll sort 'em out!
By what other means were you expecting human politicians to support any action which might contradict their (personal) interests, other than to stage a demonstration, where they would otherwise be free to manipulate capitalism and democracy?
I don't think it's uniquely human: chimps do pretty much the same thing.
Nor does it seem to be limited to inter-species predation: orcas chase and kill dolphins for fun.
Perhaps evolution should lead the brain to develop means of dealing with such complications?
Or fall by the wayside?
But I remain convinced the death penalty for elected politicians (preferably televised, and I really like the noon-on-Sundays angle) earning more than the average salary of their constituents has now become the only way forward for the primitive democracies of the West.
How else were you hoping to replace Christianity; with 'Woke!'?!?
It didn't work for Biden, and I don't think it's worth arguing about the Nobel Peace Prize winner.
It doesn't work, as the relationship between Hungary and Poland bears witness.
1. It's lasted almost a full 700 years already so I don't foresee it being broken that easily just because Polish politicians over the past 2,5 years placed their hatred for Russia before it.
2. Hungary, despite being allied with the Nazis, didn't allow them to use their territory to invade Poland and helped Polish refugees until they were fully occupied by the Nazis.
Yeah, my experience with Ukrainian students in Poland who I met during a brief study abroad trip there in 2009 was that they were very nationalistic too, even trying to teach me the chant that "the one who doesn't jump is a Moskal".
But my analysis is about Poland and Hungary, and the way in which both leading Polish political parties' hatred of Russia (expressed in this context via armed aid for Ukraine) led to them ruining their 700-year-old Brotherhood with Hungary.
I'm not sure that political ties will be repaired anytime soon, at least so long as Tusk is in power and if the conflict is still raging by the time that he leaves (whenever that'll be), but only liberal-globalists in Poland hate Hungary, not conservative-nationalists.
The country is roughly divided in two similar to how the US is right now, with half hating Hungary for ideological reasons and the other half loving it, but it used to be that the liberal-globalists didn't hate Hungary as a whole until the latest phase of the Ukrainian Conflict began and its position became the opposite of Poland's.
Conservative-nationalists were also souring on Hungary a bit too, but nowhere near as much as the liberal-globalists, and my reading is that they're more inclined to continue respecting their 700-year-long brotherhood compared to their liberal-globalist rivals.
"...they're more inclined to continue respecting their 700-year-long brotherhood compared to their liberal-globalist rivals."
I'd agree, makes sense, logically; but isn't it amazing how much damage just a little money can do; who would ever have imagined so few Ukrainians could have been turned into such rotten apples to have spoilt such a beautiful nation with such great potential so quickly and thoroughly?
Fats may say it wasn't easy and she laboured on this work long and hard, and we probably should consider the seeds sown by Operation Paperclip to be deliberate (even if they had no definable application at the time), but at the end of the day, until Putin drew and enforced the line, everything just seemed to fall into place to lure those humans to their demise so easily.
Короче, I hope you're right — that the Poles and Hungarians (their relationship) may prove to be more resilient, but I'm still so distracted by the Ukrainians' corruption... Just can't get over it. How could it be: how could an educated people be so weak and stupid and easily-led??? If it was so easy to entrap the Ukrainians, I'm afraid it doesn't look good for the Poles or Hungarians.
But that's just me, and it's just now. I'll get over it eventually, I'm sure.
I personally don't think money has anything to do with this: both of Poland's two main parties (comparatively more conservative-nationalist PiS and liberal-globalist PO) already hate Russia without anyone having to pay them.
I was worried back in early 2022 that something like this would happen and wrote about it on a now-defunct site but don't have the time to dig around in partner sites that might have republished it to share it here for context.
In any case, it was foreseeable that Poland would continue prioritizing its geopolitical hatred of Russia over its centuries-long brotherhood with Hungary, and that this could risk a serious rupture if Poland gets too carried out.
Average Poles are aware of this brotherhood like I wrote in my last response, with conservative-nationalists feeling more warmly about it nowadays than liberal-globalists, but some of the former still dislike Orban's Russia policy.
I know the Polish mentality well. They'd gladly slit their own children's throats with a song on their lips if that were what it took to get an American to pat them on the head and call them a good dog. That goes double if their children's deaths somehow would spite Russia.
Lest anyone still doubt, note how Poles embraced the literal direct biological and ideological descendants of those who so joyously murdered their grandparents.
Poles hate Russia/USSR for partitions and communism.
They generally consider Russians to be the same victims of communism as themselves so it didn't take much to get along on that level.
Along with preparations for war, propaganda began to be spread that the Russians hate and despise the Poles.
With the start of Special Operation, we were inundated with Ukrainian propaganda. Of course, the leadership of the entire operation was neither in Kyiv nor Warsaw.
Poles in general, have a soft heart so they took care of the "victims" and victims of the "eternal enemy."
At this point, Polish-Russian relations have fallen to their lowest point.
From there, it was easy for political parties on both sides to follow orders from Washington.
The problem is that most Poles accept as their own the message that comes from the media.
With such interest from the secret and official services in the subject, it is impossible to present any alternative to the current course.
Some Poles, of course, know that at least part of the message is false, but even they build a worldview for themselves guided by mainstream information.
As for Polish-Hungarian relations, off the record they are doing well, the problem arises when the talks descend into politics but even then they are better than with the Czechs or Slovaks, not to mention the Germans or Russians.
Of course, everything depends on the political orientation of a particular Pole. Those in favor of the Union and globalism ABSOLUTELY hate Hungarians for not supporting their "beautiful idea".
However, one should bear in mind that their share of the population fluctuates and is closer to 50% rather than the vast majority.
Thanks to Andrew's article and further responses to readers' comments, I have learned a lot here. I can understand somewhat why Poland hates Russia (the historical feud is too deep). Poland had been shifted westward after WW2 and took over some of German's land, so Poland cannot afford to hate Germany as much. Americans had been slowly building up in Poland since Poland Joined NATO. I think it was Trump who moved the first BCT to Poland from Germany. Despite Trump's talk, he may end up moving more military assets into Poland in his second term. However, I do think Hungary should look south at Croatia and Slovenia, and try to put historical feud behind them as much as possible. Hungary needs sea access. Until Russia reaches Hungary border (unsure timing) gas pipeline directly from Russia would be tough. I wonder if a joint project with Croatia and Slovenia to build an LNG import pier would make sense or not.
A general thank you 😊🙏 without your reporting I would only ever get one side of goings on in what are incredibly important times. Your clear voice helps me balance not only news/propaganda but also helps me stay grounded and feel hope for which I very grateful.
Thank you so much!
"...they’ll never let politicians break the bonds between them."
Oh, I dunno: 1) never is an awfully long time; 2) if we've learnt nothing from the defeat of (Nazi) Germany and the rule of NATO, at least we can rest assured by the knowledge that a few bucks can go an awfully long way.
"...the first steps toward Poland abandoning the Visegrad Group."
You don't need any more than a few rotten apples here and there, and just the one will do, to spoil the whole barrel.
"...endures in the hearts of their patriots since they’ll never let politicians break the bonds between them."
But everyone has their price, and just a little political power can work wonders to ascertain exactly what it is.
Get more bang for your buck — the best return on your investment — in the Ukraine.
Other parts of the ex-Soviet Union are also good to go.
Failing that, eastern Europe runs a good second.
OR constitutionally impose a death penalty (Televised hangings at noon on Sundays from the capital's central square should work.) for elected politicians who obtain (and can be shown to exploit OR NOT — a finer political point — the devil's in the details) access to means greater than the average of their constituents — string 'em up from Nelson's column if they make more money than those who elect them, watch and hear their necks snap as they fall level with the lions at the bases; that'll sort 'em out!
By what other means were you expecting human politicians to support any action which might contradict their (personal) interests, other than to stage a demonstration, where they would otherwise be free to manipulate capitalism and democracy?
I don't think it's uniquely human: chimps do pretty much the same thing.
Nor does it seem to be limited to inter-species predation: orcas chase and kill dolphins for fun.
Perhaps evolution should lead the brain to develop means of dealing with such complications?
Or fall by the wayside?
But I remain convinced the death penalty for elected politicians (preferably televised, and I really like the noon-on-Sundays angle) earning more than the average salary of their constituents has now become the only way forward for the primitive democracies of the West.
How else were you hoping to replace Christianity; with 'Woke!'?!?
It didn't work for Biden, and I don't think it's worth arguing about the Nobel Peace Prize winner.
It doesn't work, as the relationship between Hungary and Poland bears witness.
1. It's lasted almost a full 700 years already so I don't foresee it being broken that easily just because Polish politicians over the past 2,5 years placed their hatred for Russia before it.
2. Hungary, despite being allied with the Nazis, didn't allow them to use their territory to invade Poland and helped Polish refugees until they were fully occupied by the Nazis.
Hell, as recently as 2012 when I lived in Ukraine, nationalists were seen as freaks and losers.
Dangle out a few goodies and they'll switch sides.
Yeah, my experience with Ukrainian students in Poland who I met during a brief study abroad trip there in 2009 was that they were very nationalistic too, even trying to teach me the chant that "the one who doesn't jump is a Moskal".
But my analysis is about Poland and Hungary, and the way in which both leading Polish political parties' hatred of Russia (expressed in this context via armed aid for Ukraine) led to them ruining their 700-year-old Brotherhood with Hungary.
Those are good signs. Thanks for pointing them out.
Perhaps there's (less radical) hope, after all?
I'm not sure that political ties will be repaired anytime soon, at least so long as Tusk is in power and if the conflict is still raging by the time that he leaves (whenever that'll be), but only liberal-globalists in Poland hate Hungary, not conservative-nationalists.
The country is roughly divided in two similar to how the US is right now, with half hating Hungary for ideological reasons and the other half loving it, but it used to be that the liberal-globalists didn't hate Hungary as a whole until the latest phase of the Ukrainian Conflict began and its position became the opposite of Poland's.
Conservative-nationalists were also souring on Hungary a bit too, but nowhere near as much as the liberal-globalists, and my reading is that they're more inclined to continue respecting their 700-year-long brotherhood compared to their liberal-globalist rivals.
"...they're more inclined to continue respecting their 700-year-long brotherhood compared to their liberal-globalist rivals."
I'd agree, makes sense, logically; but isn't it amazing how much damage just a little money can do; who would ever have imagined so few Ukrainians could have been turned into such rotten apples to have spoilt such a beautiful nation with such great potential so quickly and thoroughly?
Fats may say it wasn't easy and she laboured on this work long and hard, and we probably should consider the seeds sown by Operation Paperclip to be deliberate (even if they had no definable application at the time), but at the end of the day, until Putin drew and enforced the line, everything just seemed to fall into place to lure those humans to their demise so easily.
Короче, I hope you're right — that the Poles and Hungarians (their relationship) may prove to be more resilient, but I'm still so distracted by the Ukrainians' corruption... Just can't get over it. How could it be: how could an educated people be so weak and stupid and easily-led??? If it was so easy to entrap the Ukrainians, I'm afraid it doesn't look good for the Poles or Hungarians.
But that's just me, and it's just now. I'll get over it eventually, I'm sure.
I personally don't think money has anything to do with this: both of Poland's two main parties (comparatively more conservative-nationalist PiS and liberal-globalist PO) already hate Russia without anyone having to pay them.
I was worried back in early 2022 that something like this would happen and wrote about it on a now-defunct site but don't have the time to dig around in partner sites that might have republished it to share it here for context.
In any case, it was foreseeable that Poland would continue prioritizing its geopolitical hatred of Russia over its centuries-long brotherhood with Hungary, and that this could risk a serious rupture if Poland gets too carried out.
Average Poles are aware of this brotherhood like I wrote in my last response, with conservative-nationalists feeling more warmly about it nowadays than liberal-globalists, but some of the former still dislike Orban's Russia policy.
Yours is a far more balanced (and well-informed) view.
I concur.
That's not addressed to anyone personally. I use 'you' here in the generic sense, to mean 'one'.
I know the Polish mentality well. They'd gladly slit their own children's throats with a song on their lips if that were what it took to get an American to pat them on the head and call them a good dog. That goes double if their children's deaths somehow would spite Russia.
Lest anyone still doubt, note how Poles embraced the literal direct biological and ideological descendants of those who so joyously murdered their grandparents.
Ironically, Viktor Orban is the Lech Wałęsa of the 21st century.
Fascism cannot destroy all of the Baltics.
Poles hate Russia/USSR for partitions and communism.
They generally consider Russians to be the same victims of communism as themselves so it didn't take much to get along on that level.
Along with preparations for war, propaganda began to be spread that the Russians hate and despise the Poles.
With the start of Special Operation, we were inundated with Ukrainian propaganda. Of course, the leadership of the entire operation was neither in Kyiv nor Warsaw.
Poles in general, have a soft heart so they took care of the "victims" and victims of the "eternal enemy."
At this point, Polish-Russian relations have fallen to their lowest point.
From there, it was easy for political parties on both sides to follow orders from Washington.
The problem is that most Poles accept as their own the message that comes from the media.
With such interest from the secret and official services in the subject, it is impossible to present any alternative to the current course.
Some Poles, of course, know that at least part of the message is false, but even they build a worldview for themselves guided by mainstream information.
As for Polish-Hungarian relations, off the record they are doing well, the problem arises when the talks descend into politics but even then they are better than with the Czechs or Slovaks, not to mention the Germans or Russians.
Of course, everything depends on the political orientation of a particular Pole. Those in favor of the Union and globalism ABSOLUTELY hate Hungarians for not supporting their "beautiful idea".
However, one should bear in mind that their share of the population fluctuates and is closer to 50% rather than the vast majority.
Thanks to Andrew's article and further responses to readers' comments, I have learned a lot here. I can understand somewhat why Poland hates Russia (the historical feud is too deep). Poland had been shifted westward after WW2 and took over some of German's land, so Poland cannot afford to hate Germany as much. Americans had been slowly building up in Poland since Poland Joined NATO. I think it was Trump who moved the first BCT to Poland from Germany. Despite Trump's talk, he may end up moving more military assets into Poland in his second term. However, I do think Hungary should look south at Croatia and Slovenia, and try to put historical feud behind them as much as possible. Hungary needs sea access. Until Russia reaches Hungary border (unsure timing) gas pipeline directly from Russia would be tough. I wonder if a joint project with Croatia and Slovenia to build an LNG import pier would make sense or not.
Poles see the West as the club they desperately want to join, the older brother that the adoring kid brother emulates.
Some Poles, with low self-esteem or quickly acquired wealth.
For a minority, the decadent West is not a goal worth pursuing.