They overthrew Imran Khan in a post-modern coup in April 2022 with the expectation that this would improve ties with the US, yet bilateral relations are now much worse than before that regime change, while the economy is much weaker and there’s now much more domestic instability too.
Genghis Khan once said: "Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard"
Pakistan's problem is similar to the Mongols. Having too many military people around and putting them into civilian positions. Their mindsets aren't equipped for civilian governance and economic development. Pakistani generals think like brutes not strategists or paragons.
You’re right, as also pointed out in Brian Cloughley’s War, Coups & Terror: “I gave them their orders, and they wanted to discuss them.” Military leaders are trained to command, not negotiate or handle civilian governance, which explains Pakistan’s struggles with this approach.
If USA wants people like Budanov to carry out terrorist attacks in Russia, people like Budanov will replicate inside Ukraine. Today they try to wreck Russia, tomorrow they try to wreck UK or US depending on which country gives them asylum. That is what they were trained to do, what they did, and what they are good at. These people will not make good subordinates. The same can be said about Pakistan ISI.
By the way, I don't think the Pakistan military launched the coup to improve the relationship with USA: they merely wanted to enjoy the US aids alone, without a civilian president meddling with their "business". Reduction of US aids to Pakistan will actually increase US influence in Pakistan as a "shock and awe".
Pakistan is basically a failed investment for the US, and Americans want to get out. Imprison Imran Khan was from one faction of US elites that still wants to invest into Pakistan geopolitically. However, the supermajority of the US elites doesn't trust Pakistan and bet their money elsewhere.
I was witness to Pakistan Navy Blind Bravado in the 1960's in San Diego when I was CDO of a US Amphibious Command ship and was called to our Gangway as our Pier Watch alerted me that a Visiting Foreign Navy Destroyer was about to Hang one of its Sailor Crewmen In plain Site at its Pier-side Berth. There were 5 US ships on that Pier but our ship was directly across from the brow of the Pakistan Vessel which had its entire crew on Deck and the Docks and our pier area was heavily Defended by Armed Pakistani Guards.
I called my Captain who was home with his family as was more than half of our entire crew on shore leave having just arrived:standing down from 9 months duty in Vietnam.
To make a long story short...it is against International Protocol to Commandeer your host country's secure spaces and brandish an Armed Guard Force to protect themselves while conducting a Fully assembled foreign Military Execution.
I called the Naval Station Command--who sent Navy Police and Fire Dept as a show of force to the Pier. The OIC and I boarded their ship and informed them....they could not hold an execution in US Territory. The CO of the Pakistani Destroyer immediately ordered his ship to get underway. Their Captain told us to disembark and not interfere with their departure--that they would be outside the three mile limit when they hanged their own criminal.
My conclusion today is....I am gratified that I joined and Served in the United States Navy. I consider myself fortunate not to have been a Citizen of Pakistan and assigned to one of their ships. God Bless America.
>>"The lesson to be learned is that the orchestrators of April 2022’s post-modern coup destroyed Pakistan and betrayed its national interests for nothing..."
I'd say the two real lessons to be learned are:
1. The utter haplessness of Pakistan which dates to long before 2022. They just don't seem to be able to pull out of the tailspin even with all the Chinese investment in power generation, etc. The overthrow of Khan was, of course, a new depth. Sad to see. Where will it end?
2. The total incoherence of US strategy, policy and even philosophy. In 2022, the US dog-whistles to the Pak "deep state" that "all will be forgiven" if Imran Khan is overthrown. But by early 2025, the new US administration is organizing a "Free Imran Khan" campaign whose authenticity and depth is highly dubious while the outgoing one is sanctioning Pakistan's missile program.
Both states are careening around curves on mountain roads.
China provides the "all weather" relationship. China provides the investment in power generation and transportation. China provides the fighter jet that shot down the Indian MiG 21 a few years ago.
And "keeping the Americans happy is the only thing that matters [to the Paks]."
The MiG-21 was shot down by an AIM-120-C5 AMRAAM. A few more were fired at an Indian Su-30MKI, but that aircraft defeated the missiles. A few fell on the Indian side of the LOC and their remains were displayed that evening in New Delhi.
There was no coup. A Vote of No Confidence was moved and passed by a majority in the National Assembly of Pakistan by elected legislators. The author is extremely ill informed about the process as he keeps repeating “ coup “ after almost every sentence. This looks like an article by an admirer of Khan and really meaningless
Pakistan as a country is primarily defined by its islamism and its adversarial relation vis-a-vis India. In addition, it has Indian Ocean ports in combination with a long border with China, so there is a belt and road initiative utility. My guess is Pakistanian deep state banked on US Democrats (that LUV Islamic states and that abhor Hindu India) to stay in power. Too bad.
Genghis Khan once said: "Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard"
Pakistan's problem is similar to the Mongols. Having too many military people around and putting them into civilian positions. Their mindsets aren't equipped for civilian governance and economic development. Pakistani generals think like brutes not strategists or paragons.
You’re right, as also pointed out in Brian Cloughley’s War, Coups & Terror: “I gave them their orders, and they wanted to discuss them.” Military leaders are trained to command, not negotiate or handle civilian governance, which explains Pakistan’s struggles with this approach.
You go fuck yourself too🤡
Are you a Pakistani general?
faujeet kus marani ke har jaga apni bund na paish ke kakuli dallay
"kus marani"
That's not nice. But maybe appropriate in this strange case.
If USA wants people like Budanov to carry out terrorist attacks in Russia, people like Budanov will replicate inside Ukraine. Today they try to wreck Russia, tomorrow they try to wreck UK or US depending on which country gives them asylum. That is what they were trained to do, what they did, and what they are good at. These people will not make good subordinates. The same can be said about Pakistan ISI.
By the way, I don't think the Pakistan military launched the coup to improve the relationship with USA: they merely wanted to enjoy the US aids alone, without a civilian president meddling with their "business". Reduction of US aids to Pakistan will actually increase US influence in Pakistan as a "shock and awe".
Pakistan is basically a failed investment for the US, and Americans want to get out. Imprison Imran Khan was from one faction of US elites that still wants to invest into Pakistan geopolitically. However, the supermajority of the US elites doesn't trust Pakistan and bet their money elsewhere.
I was witness to Pakistan Navy Blind Bravado in the 1960's in San Diego when I was CDO of a US Amphibious Command ship and was called to our Gangway as our Pier Watch alerted me that a Visiting Foreign Navy Destroyer was about to Hang one of its Sailor Crewmen In plain Site at its Pier-side Berth. There were 5 US ships on that Pier but our ship was directly across from the brow of the Pakistan Vessel which had its entire crew on Deck and the Docks and our pier area was heavily Defended by Armed Pakistani Guards.
I called my Captain who was home with his family as was more than half of our entire crew on shore leave having just arrived:standing down from 9 months duty in Vietnam.
To make a long story short...it is against International Protocol to Commandeer your host country's secure spaces and brandish an Armed Guard Force to protect themselves while conducting a Fully assembled foreign Military Execution.
I called the Naval Station Command--who sent Navy Police and Fire Dept as a show of force to the Pier. The OIC and I boarded their ship and informed them....they could not hold an execution in US Territory. The CO of the Pakistani Destroyer immediately ordered his ship to get underway. Their Captain told us to disembark and not interfere with their departure--that they would be outside the three mile limit when they hanged their own criminal.
My conclusion today is....I am gratified that I joined and Served in the United States Navy. I consider myself fortunate not to have been a Citizen of Pakistan and assigned to one of their ships. God Bless America.
Go fuck yourself 🤡
silence khaaki pig
>>"The lesson to be learned is that the orchestrators of April 2022’s post-modern coup destroyed Pakistan and betrayed its national interests for nothing..."
I'd say the two real lessons to be learned are:
1. The utter haplessness of Pakistan which dates to long before 2022. They just don't seem to be able to pull out of the tailspin even with all the Chinese investment in power generation, etc. The overthrow of Khan was, of course, a new depth. Sad to see. Where will it end?
2. The total incoherence of US strategy, policy and even philosophy. In 2022, the US dog-whistles to the Pak "deep state" that "all will be forgiven" if Imran Khan is overthrown. But by early 2025, the new US administration is organizing a "Free Imran Khan" campaign whose authenticity and depth is highly dubious while the outgoing one is sanctioning Pakistan's missile program.
Both states are careening around curves on mountain roads.
Who knows if the leaders even want to “pull out of the tailspin”.
To be a friend of America is fatal.
I almost included the Kissinger quote myself.
I doubt that anyone in the US cares about the population of Pakistan.
From the point of view of the rulers of Pakistan, keeping the Americans happy is the only thing that matters.
The essence of US power:
China provides the "all weather" relationship. China provides the investment in power generation and transportation. China provides the fighter jet that shot down the Indian MiG 21 a few years ago.
And "keeping the Americans happy is the only thing that matters [to the Paks]."
The MiG-21 was shot down by an AIM-120-C5 AMRAAM. A few more were fired at an Indian Su-30MKI, but that aircraft defeated the missiles. A few fell on the Indian side of the LOC and their remains were displayed that evening in New Delhi.
Chinese jets can't fire AMRAAMs. Only F-16s can.
OK, I stand corrected.
The larger point remains.
There was no coup. A Vote of No Confidence was moved and passed by a majority in the National Assembly of Pakistan by elected legislators. The author is extremely ill informed about the process as he keeps repeating “ coup “ after almost every sentence. This looks like an article by an admirer of Khan and really meaningless
Pakistan as a country is primarily defined by its islamism and its adversarial relation vis-a-vis India. In addition, it has Indian Ocean ports in combination with a long border with China, so there is a belt and road initiative utility. My guess is Pakistanian deep state banked on US Democrats (that LUV Islamic states and that abhor Hindu India) to stay in power. Too bad.