Pandora’s Box of speculation was already opened by the US and Ukraine so there’s no need for Russia to restrain itself from injecting its own speculation, albeit that which is much more reasonable, into the global discourse.
Yes. I'm also suggesting that once someone of significance starts speculating instead of waiting till an investigation is over, everyone else does too.
There is a difference between the Ukraine drone attack happening an hour earlier versus at the time of the plane making final approach versus hostile agents on the ground shoot a MANPAD. I think the damage is critical/fatal, but the blast was not very close. A hit by BUK would have fragmented the whole plane in the sky. The fact that pilots were able to crash landing a wounded Embraer-190 to crash landing with a 40%+ survival rate showed not only good piloting skills but also the blast payload was small. Hopefully more investigation results will be published by the authorities. Somebody also needs to talk to ground witnesses.
I think what Russia needs to do is decisively win and end this conflict sooner rather than later. Otherwise it will cost her exponentially more as the time goes by. The Ursa Major was sunk, air space will have to be closed, eventually this will build back pressure inside Russia and the risk of the nato planned outcome will increase.
You say that is if the US were somehow less responsible (than than the Ukraine, e.g. for long-range missile attacks within Russia). When does a spade become a shovel? Then it should be so called.
The fact that CNN offers this kind of piece goes to show me that the U.S. CIA killing mob was involved. As you pointed out some - of the usual hallmarks like unnamed officials as sources, speculative language such as "might" have been cause by Russian...
These are so obvious to me as what I call a propaganda "plant piece."
They have been doing these kinds of pieces for over a year now with regards to faux (ff) cyber attacks blamed on the usual of three boogeymen (Russia, China, Iran). I've documented over 10 instances of these in my addenda for my Cyber Attack Crisis article (see Addenda: https://fournier.substack.com/i/136598439/addenda).
They are very sloppy. Exposing them is easy. So, thank you for your measured work here Andrew. The only critique I would offer is when you say "so there’s no need for Russia to restrain itself from injecting its own speculation." They are actually usually more measured in their official responses to all kinds of incidents. Moreover, using such a tactic would bring them down to the lowly level of the US-NATO PsyWar operatives. I know that such speculation or propaganda is inevitably part of the greater information warfare, but I don't see how it benefits them on the world stage to use this approach, for it only diminishes their chance for support.
Interesting that you cast the blame on Ukraine for engaging in a war that was started by Putin. One more step and the logical conclusion is that Russians are to blame for this and other tragedies.
Not quite sure what sort of comment you'd like. In both cases, I think, there was a bit more to it, even if under the sheets or between the lines, than simply protecting their own. In any case, I'd say both were justified, the reasons for their justifications having quite different rationales; in most simplistic terms: the Germans' — in support of eugenics, the Russians' — quite the opposite.
This is where it gets complicated: to what extent and by what means populations' control needs to be managed: 1) (relatively) naturally, as all the various ethnicities of the Russian Federation have come together over the centuries to make россияне; 2) or by force, e.g. by the American 'WOKE' model, or its German National Socialist equivalent? It seems to me the answer is, as is so often the case, six of one and half a dozen of the other, i.e. compromise, which humans find so difficult to reconcile themselves, and their fanciful dreams, to.
Out of curiosity do you have any idea how the tragedy is reported in Azerbaijan? Whom/what are they blaming at this point? Or are they staying calm and objective until there’s an investigation? Many thanks
There's some reporting about how it might have mistakenly been hit by Russian air defenses but they're not maliciously blaming Russia. Their President actually just gave an interview with top Russian media where he extolled the benefits of allying with Russia:
ukrabanderaland is a banditic entity run by zionists iSSrahelli ashkeNAZI chazars who have no respect for other lives, see what they have done in Gaza and Palestine. They totally exterminated Semitic Palestinians, so we can say that zionists iSSrahelli ashkeNAZI bandits are real Anti-Semites.
A drone piloted by Germany and approaching from Finland bombed the Russian port of Murmansk in the far north. Finland feigned innocence and went unpunished, and this emboldended its leadership to try more audacious adventures.
After a closed door NATO nations' meeting decided by consensus to target what they call Russia's shadow oil commerce fleet, Finland has taken the initiative and impounded a Russian commercial ocean liner and illegally detained its crew, falsely accusing the latter of sabotaging undersea comminication cables that run between Finland and Estonia.
If Finland can claim rights to "punish" Russian ships on fabricated charges of economic sabotage in international waters, then, by similar token of reasoning, Finland stands far more culpable for hosting and transiting drones for bombing civilian assetts on Russian mainland soil. The toll of lives on the Russian side could have been catastrophic, maybe even upto the 100 plus teenaged cadets murdered by Israel via a drone strike conducted by Israel on a Syrian military academy in Homs on covocation day. That the toll was far lower is an accident of fate, and not the outcome of any mercy on Finland's part. Moreover, if NATO and EU countries harrass or impound Russian ships in international waters, this is an act of blatant highway robbery, high seas piracy and brigandage, and the ensuing Russian response need not be restricted to simply meekly trying to just defend its ships on the seas. NATO thugs have announced their culpability via such outrageous actions, and have effectively expressed eligibilty for punitive reprisals from Russia anywhere on earth including in the cities and villages situated on their own soil, their home turf. A Norwegian ship, which was possibly complicit in a terrorist plot to bomb a Russian freighter named Ursa Major, refused to allow sailors from that sinking ship to clamber onboard, saying Norwegian sanctions law forbids Norwegians from rescuing or lending any succour to any dying Russian. This attitude is akin to that of someone who would shoot from machine guns at sailors desperately clamouring for rescue from a ship sunk by say, Houthi anti-ship missiles in the Red Sea, a scenario painted by media mouthpieces of EU propaganda who held Russia complicit in Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea :-
DC, sadly they will acquiesce and continue the grind of NATO gear and Ukras in the Donbass etc for the long term benefit of all. A response, would it make for contemplation of their actions or just a firming of their convictions and a step up in the propaganda war they know they are winning.
why do you use the term "pandora's box"? are you suggesting all myriod demons from hell are let loose by these cynical "speculations" so called?
Yes. I'm also suggesting that once someone of significance starts speculating instead of waiting till an investigation is over, everyone else does too.
More like the MSM now knows what The Party Line is on the matter, and there is nothing to be gained from deviating from that line.
Thanks for your analysis. I would also like to hear your opinion about the sinking of the Ursa Major freighter.
There is a difference between the Ukraine drone attack happening an hour earlier versus at the time of the plane making final approach versus hostile agents on the ground shoot a MANPAD. I think the damage is critical/fatal, but the blast was not very close. A hit by BUK would have fragmented the whole plane in the sky. The fact that pilots were able to crash landing a wounded Embraer-190 to crash landing with a 40%+ survival rate showed not only good piloting skills but also the blast payload was small. Hopefully more investigation results will be published by the authorities. Somebody also needs to talk to ground witnesses.
I think what Russia needs to do is decisively win and end this conflict sooner rather than later. Otherwise it will cost her exponentially more as the time goes by. The Ursa Major was sunk, air space will have to be closed, eventually this will build back pressure inside Russia and the risk of the nato planned outcome will increase.
It doesn't matter what Ukraine did. Russia will be blamed.
"...Ukraine’s reckless drone attacks..."
You say that is if the US were somehow less responsible (than than the Ukraine, e.g. for long-range missile attacks within Russia). When does a spade become a shovel? Then it should be so called.
The fact that CNN offers this kind of piece goes to show me that the U.S. CIA killing mob was involved. As you pointed out some - of the usual hallmarks like unnamed officials as sources, speculative language such as "might" have been cause by Russian...
These are so obvious to me as what I call a propaganda "plant piece."
They have been doing these kinds of pieces for over a year now with regards to faux (ff) cyber attacks blamed on the usual of three boogeymen (Russia, China, Iran). I've documented over 10 instances of these in my addenda for my Cyber Attack Crisis article (see Addenda: https://fournier.substack.com/i/136598439/addenda).
They are very sloppy. Exposing them is easy. So, thank you for your measured work here Andrew. The only critique I would offer is when you say "so there’s no need for Russia to restrain itself from injecting its own speculation." They are actually usually more measured in their official responses to all kinds of incidents. Moreover, using such a tactic would bring them down to the lowly level of the US-NATO PsyWar operatives. I know that such speculation or propaganda is inevitably part of the greater information warfare, but I don't see how it benefits them on the world stage to use this approach, for it only diminishes their chance for support.
Interesting that you cast the blame on Ukraine for engaging in a war that was started by Putin. One more step and the logical conclusion is that Russians are to blame for this and other tragedies.
🤡
Just don't feign ignorance about WHY Russia's President started it.
Russia started it to " protect ethnic Russians". Strangely, Germany in 1939 started WW2 to protect, wait for it, " ethnic Germans". Care to comment ?
Not quite sure what sort of comment you'd like. In both cases, I think, there was a bit more to it, even if under the sheets or between the lines, than simply protecting their own. In any case, I'd say both were justified, the reasons for their justifications having quite different rationales; in most simplistic terms: the Germans' — in support of eugenics, the Russians' — quite the opposite.
This is where it gets complicated: to what extent and by what means populations' control needs to be managed: 1) (relatively) naturally, as all the various ethnicities of the Russian Federation have come together over the centuries to make россияне; 2) or by force, e.g. by the American 'WOKE' model, or its German National Socialist equivalent? It seems to me the answer is, as is so often the case, six of one and half a dozen of the other, i.e. compromise, which humans find so difficult to reconcile themselves, and their fanciful dreams, to.
" even if under the sheets or between the lines, "
Of course there were . Thats why this 5d, chess vs. checkers and constant Putin worship in the West is foolish.
" the Germans' — in support of eugenics, the Russians' — quite the opposite. "
Seriously ? Germany invaded because of eugenics ? They both invaded for the same reason, using the same reasoning, and the same sneak attack.
They both even engaged in a failed attempt to defend an allied state. Germany tried protecting Italy in Egypt, and Russia tried defending Syria.
Also, Germany ended up facing the full industrial and population might of the " world" while Russia is now facing the same.
The parallels so far are very odd.
Yes, I suspected that's where you wanted to go. Yours are the simple answers. Not everything is as it seems.
🐍
Out of curiosity do you have any idea how the tragedy is reported in Azerbaijan? Whom/what are they blaming at this point? Or are they staying calm and objective until there’s an investigation? Many thanks
There's some reporting about how it might have mistakenly been hit by Russian air defenses but they're not maliciously blaming Russia. Their President actually just gave an interview with top Russian media where he extolled the benefits of allying with Russia:
https://korybko.substack.com/p/the-azerbaijani-president-reaffirmed
Interesting thank you!
ukrabanderaland is a banditic entity run by zionists iSSrahelli ashkeNAZI chazars who have no respect for other lives, see what they have done in Gaza and Palestine. They totally exterminated Semitic Palestinians, so we can say that zionists iSSrahelli ashkeNAZI bandits are real Anti-Semites.
Better yet, maybe RU should declare that the Kiev airport and train station are both fair targets now.
Yep
Who runs the show ?
" An older survey by the Razumkov Center in 2018 estimated Jews in Ukraine at 0.4% of the population "
https://x.com/GabeZZOZZ/status/1872331189383795045?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1872331189383795045%7Ctwgr%5Eb4407d468297505f78b425c0e9feed2a097d4001%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Farticle%2Fvdares-legacy%2F
A drone piloted by Germany and approaching from Finland bombed the Russian port of Murmansk in the far north. Finland feigned innocence and went unpunished, and this emboldended its leadership to try more audacious adventures.
After a closed door NATO nations' meeting decided by consensus to target what they call Russia's shadow oil commerce fleet, Finland has taken the initiative and impounded a Russian commercial ocean liner and illegally detained its crew, falsely accusing the latter of sabotaging undersea comminication cables that run between Finland and Estonia.
If Finland can claim rights to "punish" Russian ships on fabricated charges of economic sabotage in international waters, then, by similar token of reasoning, Finland stands far more culpable for hosting and transiting drones for bombing civilian assetts on Russian mainland soil. The toll of lives on the Russian side could have been catastrophic, maybe even upto the 100 plus teenaged cadets murdered by Israel via a drone strike conducted by Israel on a Syrian military academy in Homs on covocation day. That the toll was far lower is an accident of fate, and not the outcome of any mercy on Finland's part. Moreover, if NATO and EU countries harrass or impound Russian ships in international waters, this is an act of blatant highway robbery, high seas piracy and brigandage, and the ensuing Russian response need not be restricted to simply meekly trying to just defend its ships on the seas. NATO thugs have announced their culpability via such outrageous actions, and have effectively expressed eligibilty for punitive reprisals from Russia anywhere on earth including in the cities and villages situated on their own soil, their home turf. A Norwegian ship, which was possibly complicit in a terrorist plot to bomb a Russian freighter named Ursa Major, refused to allow sailors from that sinking ship to clamber onboard, saying Norwegian sanctions law forbids Norwegians from rescuing or lending any succour to any dying Russian. This attitude is akin to that of someone who would shoot from machine guns at sailors desperately clamouring for rescue from a ship sunk by say, Houthi anti-ship missiles in the Red Sea, a scenario painted by media mouthpieces of EU propaganda who held Russia complicit in Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea :-
https://youtu.be/AW90p_dMALY?si=5KaudJpMOK-12hC-
Instead of complaining, what do you think Russia should do or will do ?
DC, sadly they will acquiesce and continue the grind of NATO gear and Ukras in the Donbass etc for the long term benefit of all. A response, would it make for contemplation of their actions or just a firming of their convictions and a step up in the propaganda war they know they are winning.
Quit excusing this horrible mistake. This was preventable. Russia needs to own up and admit its mistake…and apologize.
Those wicked Ukrainians, attacking poor, innocent, peace-loving Russia like that!